The Kindness of Women (or, 'My Burgeoning Love Affair With Womankind')

[Unseelie Queen]

Originally Posted by A human Being

Good question... I think maybe love in general makes us feel vulnerable, so at the root of it is fear? It's actually quite a difficult question for me to answer at the moment, because I've declaring my love for everything! (Don't know if you'd noticed - must be your effect on me )

Part of it may be related to a general hesitancy to display any sort of passion or enthusiasm; I, myself am constantly mentally scolding myself, saying "Calm down, calm down, you'll overwhelm people", making myself smaller, lest my heart become too loud.
(And no, no, I hadn't noticed at all! <3 )

Originally Posted by A human Being

Love the webcomics, the divine Ms Bush sure is ripe for parody all right! Which brings to mind Noel Fielding's homage to her

What you said about feeling like 'an imposter of a woman' is interesting... of course that speaks to our models of what constitutes 'feminine' behaviour, and it can leave women feeling alienated and maybe even shameful if they don't feel their behaviour adheres to that model. I think it just serves to underline the obvious point that in truth we're not really defined by these models, that we're capable of the whole spectrum of emotions, and that women can experience emotional repression, too. When we're beholden to ideas of how we should and shouldn't behave, we're effectively imprisoning ourselves and denying aspects of ourselves that exist in everyone, and that is a recipe for suffering.
So interesting, what you said about seeking 'what's unexpressed-yet-within-us in another who is a walking embodiment of it'. That's very true, I feel, and it's an expression of our desire for unity in the physical, though I think our tendency is to regard the walking embodiment as 'other' than us, to objectify these desirable qualities rather than recognise them in ourselves? Hmm, is it that we seek to 'possess' these qualities, in the form of another, because we can't see that we already possess them?

Agreed completely, wonderfully said -- especially what you mention about it being 'an expression of our desire for unity in the physical' and viewing the living embodiment as other rather than something which we, too, possess within us. We do absolutely objectify and idolize (sometimes even demonize!) such qualities. Some of us cannot, for the life of us, acknowledge even the tiniest bit of beauty within ourselves! Even when we're filled to the brim-- also, it does often seem so much easier to to pour love into another (often those who possess the qualities we believe we do not have, and ache for) rather than mutually bask in love of both ourselves and each other, illuminating each other, and not withholding love from ourselves due to a belief that we're unworthy.

Originally Posted by A human Being

I'm not, as you know, very 'Jung-literate'! I'm curious about what you said about men 'having an entirely realised anima', and how 'it colours their interactions with women and their perceptions of them, often negatively' - so is this hostility a result of their hostility to these unrealised aspects of themselves? Though I guess our hostility towards a perceived other is always really hostility towards ourselves?

Darling, I'm not as Jung-literate as I'd like to be, either (his books are not the most riveting) ; I was simply going into internet-armchair-psychologist mode because I'm insufferable. But no, yes, I do think our unrealised aspects (or repressed/pushed aside rather) can make us a bit neurotic and judgmental when we see such traits/aspects in others. It goes along with that very human habit of having a knee-jerk reaction of disdain or disgust when we see someone doing something (often just some irritating, minor thing) that we, ourselves are often guilty of. So yes, as you said-- we harbor a great deal of hostility toward ourselves. A lot of it seems to be shame-based, stemming from all of the traits we were forced to eradicate when very young.

Originally Posted by A human Being

The 'social capital gap' study you referenced is, unfortunately, depressingly accurate, I feel... it's why suicide rates are generally higher amongst men, they don't have those support networks and tend to be very repressed, emotionally. Women often complain that men aren't in touch with their feelings, and it's generally true I feel and I understand their frustration, but one's inner life can be extremely arid and deadening when this is the case (I know this very well from my own experience). Life really isn't a lot of fun when you're alienated from your emotions, as both men and women can attest to. You're right, there is a nearly all-consuming fear of true intimacy and vulnerability, and yet at the same time it's what we truly yearn for, I believe, even if we're not conscious of the fact... it's something we really have to come to terms with, if we're to survive as a species, but I suspect we'll have to reach breaking point before we do (if we ever do).

Yes, the suicide rates.. :c If I'm recalling correctly, men have the higher completed suicide rate, whereas women attempt suicide more often (and unsuccessfully) -- I would double-check but I already have 15 tabs open, haha. (One of the many reasons I'd love to go into social work or transpersonal therapy and work with adolescent men (and girls!) and depressed prisoners.)
I'm sure we all can agree that both men and women experience that-- both the emotional deadening and a fear and yearning for emotional intimacy. (And when, for instance, clinical depression sets in-- that often causes a deep numbness and apathy rather than sadness alone, making one all the more detached.) Though it's often expressed differently, and often, has different root causes.. I remember one girl I dated was incredibly frustrated with my own emotional detachment; I was just as frustrated, and did not know how to explain that although I was aware of it, I just.. At the time I would rather be contained and stoic rather than release the floodgates (and everything that had been building up unexpressed for a long while), not wanting to hurt her or frighten her off. Because, you know, that's often a hazard, too. Sometimes when we (male or female) finally feel brave enough to be transparent, to open ourselves and express ourselves (and our love and sorrows) completely, the other person immediately, sharply recoils. It can be too much for them. You can see their eyes flash and deaden; you can feel the precise moment they thought, "Nope, nope, too intense, I'm out of here". (And some men I've been friends with have expressed similar experiences.) And...After that happens to you a couple times, you become a LOT more hesitant to express things. Sometimes you do not want to even bother. And so begins the unhealthy cycle of repression-and-then-explosion, over and over. I'm sure much of this is just a part of youth and growing up, though.

Originally Posted by A human Being

Yeah I think for women, they yearn for intimacy, too (obviously!), but, as you say, they fear the loss of it. And that can manifest as clinginess or obsessiveness, which unfortunately only has the effect of scaring men away... now I think about it, I wonder if it's related to the prevalence of eating disorders and self-harm in women? (Again, I appreciate that this is on the rise in men, too, but it's more common in women.)

Hmm, now what were we talking about?... oh yeah, the kindness of women It's an interesting discussion, though :)

As if we could ever be succinct or stay on ONE topic!

But um, yeah! Ohhh, goodness, you mentioned self-harm and eating disorders-- I could talk for literally a million years about that topic. OK. Let's see if I can be brief...
Actually, with eating disorders, there's a strong genetic component and from a neurological perspective it's extremely closely related to Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. It's actually the starvation/physiological effects of the disorder that perpetuate and exacerbate it/the symptoms, interestingly. (if you look up the 'Minnesota Starvation Experiment', you'll see how it happens! The study involved only men, too) It also often involves dysfunctional family dynamics, more often than not. Also a fairly large percentage of women who self-harm (and have eating disorders) have a history of trauma and/or childhood sexual abuse. Um, but anyway, that's a bit off-topic..
Right, yes, the 'clinginess' and obsessiveness.. Those have all sorts of reasons. I'm sure much of it is plain insecurity, and maybe a lack of love during times in their lives when they really desperately needed it but were deprived... And then when they (male or female) finally receive love, there's a worry that it's a mirage, that it'll be yanked away the moment they stop looking.. And yes! This sort of insecurity can cause self-destructive tendencies, in general, be it self-harm or eating disorders or an obsessive fixation with being pretty enough to love.

OK... Going to release that runaway train of a reply for now!

I glanced, but did not have the time to read the enormous volumes of material on this site, so I ask forgiveness if I have gotten the topic wrong, I did read the first post, or most of it.

The kindness of Women...I will sum up the entire thread in my opinion, in one word- Balance. I understand you went through an awakening in 2012. congrats you are part of an incredible time in history as 2012 will be marked as the start of the era that man(woman)kind has started to awaken. This awakening takes many forms. Social, political, spiritual, all upheavals that took place as the Mayans predicted. or at least how we interpreted what they predicted.
Anyway, my point is this: Most men around the globe, have not yet fully realized thier emotional potential but the process has started.

As a general rule, but not always, men are conditioned from birth, and through our institutional thinking to disregard thier feelings using logic , reason, etc. This is why(most) men, do not understand the emotional cleansing that must take place in order to become whole.
On the other hand Women are not off the hook either. since Women are programmed to make use of thier non linear reasoning, otherwise known as intuition. and the disadvantage is they do not reason with clarity in a linear way when comes to certain situations that need it.
So if you are a man and you are awakening, as it seems to me ,this is what is happening to you, then you are going to start to open up your right side of your brain, or simply put you are going to start to BALANCE. Balancing is very simple. ill use a example from Star Trek show which has encoded this.

if you remember the show. there are three key figures.

1. Spock(left brain representing reason logic etc.)

2. dr. McCoy (emotions, care, empathy etc.)

and you have Capt Kirk.

Capt Kirk is of course special.

The other two make thier decisions using thier gifts, (emotional or logical)
notice that the first two were always bickering or at odds with each other?
these characters represent the brain and its two halves, the right dominant and the left dominant.
That is when Kirk steps in- and he uses BOTH process to get them out of tricky situations. This is how it works. When we use logic and emotion, we get
INTUITION! and thats how Kirk saves thier asses every time. he takes both of his seconds in command and balances with the higher function of intuition, which of course is why he is the CAPTAIN! make sense?

let me say this clearly- there is a huge diff, between intellect and intelligence!
Intellect is using the reasoning faculties. Intelligence is a sum which becomes greater than the two halves of the brain when combined.

i.e. emotion + reasoning = Intelligence

it is natural if you are awakening to notice the divine feminine.

what you notice externally, is a mirror of what you know internally, or are heading towards internally.
Because you are becoming more in tune with your Divine feminine- you are going to notice beauty, emotions, etc. all those things which make up the right brain process. and no you wont start to want to wear women's underwear!
you will however start to develop far more empathy and compassion. etc.
This is going to balance out the male in you. This is taoist, it is Native american and it is at the core of almost every Spiritual understanding on earth. from secret societies to religions. The problem has been, that the sacred feminine has been taken from men. So we are just emotionally coming into our own. A balanced man has keen awareness, observation, intuition, compassion, as well as great logic skills, insights, reasoning faculties etc. The balanced human being will always be superior to the half-human that humanity has created over the last couple millennia. It is our true nature to be balanced. So when you start to notice the divine aspects of the feminine, it is likely you that is changing. now the bad news. if this is true for you- you are going to need to cleanse. This part sucks bad!
It means crying. opening up to pain that you may never have dealt with over your entire life. opening to a new self awareness that is often painful. it is a process, and to be fully whole will take time in my case- about 12 years. And you will never be the same because you will now be always in touch with that part of you that cares. It will take unlearning to be able to allow yourself to just feel in public too, cry in front of others. because of the incredible societal dogma that men inflict on themselves. anyway this hallmark feature surprisingly has been kept a secret for centuries. But the Egyptians knew it, as shown by the Scarab beetle, the Taoists, as shown by the taiji te symbol, and the native Americans, as shown by the thunderbird and the water panther. Allow yourself to open up. and I hope that I was on target with your thread, if not, give me a heads up and Ill just delete this.
Great peace!

[A human Being]

Originally Posted by Unseelie Queen

As if we could ever be succinct or stay on ONE topic!

Yep, that was never going to happen

Originally Posted by Unseelie Queen

Part of it may be related to a general hesitancy to display any sort of passion or enthusiasm; I, myself am constantly mentally scolding myself, saying "Calm down, calm down, you'll overwhelm people", making myself smaller, lest my heart become too loud.
(And no, no, I hadn't noticed at all! <3 )

Right, and that comes back to a fear of judgment, essentially, and I suppose a fear of being ostracised - we're social animals, after all, and social networks are important for us (and as we said, when people don't feel they have those structures in place, when they feel isolated, it can cause all sorts of mental health issues). So as much as anything, I think, it's tremendously useful for our spiritual development and general well-being for us to spend time with people who allow us to express ourselves freely, who we feel 'get' us (and the internet, for example, is wonderful for connecting us to such people )

(It brings to mind a Jim Morrison quote I saw in a bar last week: 'A true friend is someone who lets you have total freedom to be yourself - and especially to feel. Or, not feel.' <3)

Originally Posted by Unseelie Queen

Agreed completely, wonderfully said -- especially what you mention about it being 'an expression of our desire for unity in the physical' and viewing the living embodiment as other rather than something which we, too, possess within us. We do absolutely objectify and idolize (sometimes even demonize!) such qualities. Some of us cannot, for the life of us, acknowledge even the tiniest bit of beauty within ourselves! Even when we're filled to the brim-- also, it does often seem so much easier to to pour love into another (often those who possess the qualities we believe we do not have, and ache for) rather than mutually bask in love of both ourselves and each other, illuminating each other, and not withholding love from ourselves due to a belief that we're unworthy.

Oh it's so sad that so many cannot acknowledge even their most obvious qualities... And absolutely - you put it so beautifully, when we believe ourselves separate from love, unworthy of it (of that which we are, after all), then we can't truly bask in it except for those very short periods of time when we lose sight of the unworthy, unlovable self-image that we take ourselves to be. And the problem is, when that self-image resurfaces, we lose sight not only of our true nature, the truth of our being, but also that of our lover. And hence, so often in relationships we have all the issues that we do, I feel.

Originally Posted by Unseelie Queen

Darling, I'm not as Jung-literate as I'd like to be, either (his books are not the most riveting) ; I was simply going into internet-armchair-psychologist mode because I'm insufferable. But no, yes, I do think our unrealised aspects (or repressed/pushed aside rather) can make us a bit neurotic and judgmental when we see such traits/aspects in others. It goes along with that very human habit of having a knee-jerk reaction of disdain or disgust when we see someone doing something (often just some irritating, minor thing) that we, ourselves are often guilty of. So yes, as you said-- we harbor a great deal of hostility toward ourselves. A lot of it seems to be shame-based, stemming from all of the traits we were forced to eradicate when very young.

Aw, you're intellectually curious, is all, not insufferable in the least And you're right, our reactions to others' behaviour only ever reflects on us, ultimately, but our tendency is to fixate on these behaviours that we deem to be 'other,' and lose sight of ourselves in the process, not realising that the whole notion of 'other' is a fallacy. We externalise those traits and behaviours that we've learnt from a very young age to repress and deny in ourselves, and as a result we're in conflict with ourselves.

Originally Posted by Unseelie Queen

Yes, the suicide rates.. :c If I'm recalling correctly, men have the higher completed suicide rate, whereas women attempt suicide more often (and unsuccessfully) -- I would double-check but I already have 15 tabs open, haha. (One of the many reasons I'd love to go into social work or transpersonal therapy and work with adolescent men (and girls!) and depressed prisoners.)
I'm sure we all can agree that both men and women experience that-- both the emotional deadening and a fear and yearning for emotional intimacy. (And when, for instance, clinical depression sets in-- that often causes a deep numbness and apathy rather than sadness alone, making one all the more detached.) Though it's often expressed differently, and often, has different root causes.. I remember one girl I dated was incredibly frustrated with my own emotional detachment; I was just as frustrated, and did not know how to explain that although I was aware of it, I just.. At the time I would rather be contained and stoic rather than release the floodgates (and everything that had been building up unexpressed for a long while), not wanting to hurt her or frighten her off. Because, you know, that's often a hazard, too. Sometimes when we (male or female) finally feel brave enough to be transparent, to open ourselves and express ourselves (and our love and sorrows) completely, the other person immediately, sharply recoils. It can be too much for them. You can see their eyes flash and deaden; you can feel the precise moment they thought, "Nope, nope, too intense, I'm out of here". (And some men I've been friends with have expressed similar experiences.) And...After that happens to you a couple times, you become a LOT more hesitant to express things. Sometimes you do not want to even bother. And so begins the unhealthy cycle of repression-and-then-explosion, over and over. I'm sure much of this is just a part of youth and growing up, though.

Oh that's interesting, I didn't know that about attempted suicide being higher amongst women...
Mm, I think emotional detachment is something that can happen when one has experienced trauma in their earlier development and hasn't had the emotional support around them to give them an outlet for those painful emotions (and they've been told to 'buck up', for example - ie to emotionally repress), leading to unhealthy coping mechanisms such as emotional detachment, self-harm, etc. I know in my case I was extremely sensitive as a child, and was ridiculed at school as a result, and that led me to repress what I was feeling, which only had the effect of making me a very angry and moody adolescent/young adult. And it was only when I reached breaking point that things started to change for the better.
And what you said about other people shutting down when you express what you're feeling is also very true, and it's a difficult thing to deal with when you haven't yet learn to process your feelings fully... I feel emotional engagement is such a wonderful gift to give people when they're upset and distressed, because it helps allow them to release those feelings - it's something I've gradually had to learn, because my instinct was also to shut down at those times.

Originally Posted by Unseelie Queen

But um, yeah! Ohhh, goodness, you mentioned self-harm and eating disorders-- I could talk for literally a million years about that topic. OK. Let's see if I can be brief...
Actually, with eating disorders, there's a strong genetic component and from a neurological perspective it's extremely closely related to Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. It's actually the starvation/physiological effects of the disorder that perpetuate and exacerbate it/the symptoms, interestingly. (if you look up the 'Minnesota Starvation Experiment', you'll see how it happens! The study involved only men, too) It also often involves dysfunctional family dynamics, more often than not. Also a fairly large percentage of women who self-harm (and have eating disorders) have a history of trauma and/or childhood sexual abuse. Um, but anyway, that's a bit off-topic..
Right, yes, the 'clinginess' and obsessiveness.. Those have all sorts of reasons. I'm sure much of it is plain insecurity, and maybe a lack of love during times in their lives when they really desperately needed it but were deprived... And then when they (male or female) finally receive love, there's a worry that it's a mirage, that it'll be yanked away the moment they stop looking.. And yes! This sort of insecurity can cause self-destructive tendencies, in general, be it self-harm or eating disorders or an obsessive fixation with being pretty enough to love.

OK... Going to release that runaway train of a reply for now!

This is certainly what I've seen, of the people I know who have suffered with eating disorders - the dynamics of their families have always been dysfunctional in one way or another, and that dysfunction tends to take the form of an inability to healthily express emotions. I'm by no means an expert on eating disorders, so I'll bow to your superior knowledge on this subject, though it seems to me that at root it's simply another coping mechanism? And as far as I can tell, disorders such as anorexia, on the one hand, and over-eating, on the other, are two sides of the same coin?
So for me it really comes back to self-realisation, because when we're estranged from the truth of our being and instead take ourselves to be the person we've been conditioned to believe we are - whether that's good or bad, worthy or unworthy, attractive or unattractive - then we're destined to suffer, to be forever restless, until our self-image is seen through.

[A human Being]

Originally Posted by confusionsay

I glanced, but did not have the time to read the enormous volumes of material on this site, so I ask forgiveness if I have gotten the topic wrong, I did read the first post, or most of it.

The kindness of Women...I will sum up the entire thread in my opinion, in one word- Balance. I understand you went through an awakening in 2012. congrats you are part of an incredible time in history as 2012 will be marked as the start of the era that man(woman)kind has started to awaken. This awakening takes many forms. Social, political, spiritual, all upheavals that took place as the Mayans predicted. or at least how we interpreted what they predicted.
Anyway, my point is this: Most men around the globe, have not yet fully realized thier emotional potential but the process has started.

As a general rule, but not always, men are conditioned from birth, and through our institutional thinking to disregard thier feelings using logic , reason, etc. This is why(most) men, do not understand the emotional cleansing that must take place in order to become whole.
On the other hand Women are not off the hook either. since Women are programmed to make use of thier non linear reasoning, otherwise known as intuition. and the disadvantage is they do not reason with clarity in a linear way when comes to certain situations that need it.
So if you are a man and you are awakening, as it seems to me ,this is what is happening to you, then you are going to start to open up your right side of your brain, or simply put you are going to start to BALANCE. Balancing is very simple. ill use a example from Star Trek show which has encoded this.

if you remember the show. there are three key figures.

1. Spock(left brain representing reason logic etc.)

2. dr. McCoy (emotions, care, empathy etc.)

and you have Capt Kirk.

Capt Kirk is of course special.

The other two make thier decisions using thier gifts, (emotional or logical)
notice that the first two were always bickering or at odds with each other?
these characters represent the brain and its two halves, the right dominant and the left dominant.
That is when Kirk steps in- and he uses BOTH process to get them out of tricky situations. This is how it works. When we use logic and emotion, we get
INTUITION! and thats how Kirk saves thier asses every time. he takes both of his seconds in command and balances with the higher function of intuition, which of course is why he is the CAPTAIN! make sense?

let me say this clearly- there is a huge diff, between intellect and intelligence!
Intellect is using the reasoning faculties. Intelligence is a sum which becomes greater than the two halves of the brain when combined.

i.e. emotion + reasoning = Intelligence

it is natural if you are awakening to notice the divine feminine.

what you notice externally, is a mirror of what you know internally, or are heading towards internally.
Because you are becoming more in tune with your Divine feminine- you are going to notice beauty, emotions, etc. all those things which make up the right brain process. and no you wont start to want to wear women's underwear!
you will however start to develop far more empathy and compassion. etc.
This is going to balance out the male in you. This is taoist, it is Native american and it is at the core of almost every Spiritual understanding on earth. from secret societies to religions. The problem has been, that the sacred feminine has been taken from men. So we are just emotionally coming into our own. A balanced man has keen awareness, observation, intuition, compassion, as well as great logic skills, insights, reasoning faculties etc. The balanced human being will always be superior to the half-human that humanity has created over the last couple millennia. It is our true nature to be balanced. So when you start to notice the divine aspects of the feminine, it is likely you that is changing. now the bad news. if this is true for you- you are going to need to cleanse. This part sucks bad!
It means crying. opening up to pain that you may never have dealt with over your entire life. opening to a new self awareness that is often painful. it is a process, and to be fully whole will take time in my case- about 12 years. And you will never be the same because you will now be always in touch with that part of you that cares. It will take unlearning to be able to allow yourself to just feel in public too, cry in front of others. because of the incredible societal dogma that men inflict on themselves. anyway this hallmark feature surprisingly has been kept a secret for centuries. But the Egyptians knew it, as shown by the Scarab beetle, the Taoists, as shown by the taiji te symbol, and the native Americans, as shown by the thunderbird and the water panther. Allow yourself to open up. and I hope that I was on target with your thread, if not, give me a heads up and Ill just delete this.
Great peace!

Oh yeah, this was very much on target with the thread, and you've put it so well! Balance, yes, and integrating ALL aspects of oneself - both one's logic and reasoning, as well as one's emotions and intuition If we're going to survive and flourish as a species, I feel this integration and balance is crucial.

I particularly like what you say here:

let me say this clearly- there is a huge diff, between intellect and intelligence!
Intellect is using the reasoning faculties. Intelligence is a sum which becomes greater than the two halves of the brain when combined.

i.e. emotion + reasoning = Intelligence

it is natural if you are awakening to notice the divine feminine.

what you notice externally, is a mirror of what you know internally, or are heading towards internally.
Because you are becoming more in tune with your Divine feminine- you are going to notice beauty, emotions, etc. all those things which make up the right brain process. and no you wont start to want to wear women's underwear!

We've all heard of IQ, which relates (I believe) to the intellect, but in recent years we've began to talk about EQ, which measures emotional intelligence, and that is every bit as vital as our ability to reason and think logically.

Thanks for your invaluable input!

(Oh, and who knew Star Trek was so profound? Well, probably loads of people, but I must confess I always thought it was just a bit of sci-fi silliness Really want to watch it now, though!)

It was my honour to be able to share my truth. Thanks for reading.:)
trust me I am not a trekkie but did love the show growing up. only in my later stages in life, did I get that "AHA" moment about the show, only after i started to understand myself, and what balance really was. Thank you for your kind words. I hope you will continue to honour and value that sacred feminine aspect of yourself and others. it will rocket you to great places. ;)

p.s. is your signature quote from the movie American Beauty? if not, there is an almost identical quote on that in the movie that if you haven't seen it. its amazingly profound. ugh i watch too much media!

Great Peace!

[A human Being]

Originally Posted by confusionsay

It was my honour to be able to share my truth. Thanks for reading.:)
trust me I am not a trekkie but did love the show growing up. only in my later stages in life, did I get that "AHA" moment about the show, only after i started to understand myself, and what balance really was. Thank you for your kind words. I hope you will continue to honour and value that sacred feminine aspect of yourself and others. it will rocket you to great places. ;)

p.s. is your signature quote from the movie American Beauty? if not, there is an almost identical quote on that in the movie that if you haven't seen it. its amazingly profound. ugh i watch too much media!

Great Peace!

YES! the quote's from American Beauty, which is one of my top three films of all time, it's wonderful - funny, thought-provoking, and, as you say, profound

With regards Star Trek - ahhh, as is often the way, it can be years later, as our understanding of ourselves deepens, that we truly appreciate the profundity and truth of these things

Thanks again for your input and your kind words

[Unseelie Queen]

I liked what confusionsay said, as well; there's absolutely a difference between intelligence and intellect. I liked this part especially: "what you notice externally, is a mirror of what you know internally, or are heading towards internally."

Originally Posted by a human being

Oh it's so sad that so many cannot acknowledge even their most obvious qualities... And absolutely - you put it so beautifully, when we believe ourselves separate from love, unworthy of it (of that which we are, after all), then we can't truly bask in it except for those very short periods of time when we lose sight of the unworthy, unlovable self-image that we take ourselves to be. And the problem is, when that self-image resurfaces, we lose sight not only of our true nature, the truth of our being, but also that of our lover. And hence, so often in relationships we have all the issues that we do, I feel.

Yes, yes.. Very astute observation, Agent Fox! Our own distorted self-image can warp our view of our lovers (and friends, even) too.
Projection and insecurity.. Hmm yes this is especially a problem when we perceive ourselves to be hopelessly-flawed monsters, and our partners as a shining beacon of perfection. Interesting how we can idolize in others what we're utterly blind to within ourselves!

Originally Posted by a human being

it was only when I reached breaking point that things started to change for the better.
And what you said about other people shutting down when you express what you're feeling is also very true, and it's a difficult thing to deal with when you haven't yet learn to process your feelings fully... I feel emotional engagement is such a wonderful gift to give people when they're upset and distressed, because it helps allow them to release those feelings - it's something I've gradually had to learn, because my instinct was also to shut down at those times.

There is always a breaking point, yes.. After a certain point, the heart simply cannot take it, and it's all released in an overwhelming flood. Reminds me of a thing Sylvia Plath said: "And when at last you find someone to whom you feel you can pour out your soul, you stop in shock at the words you utter – they are so rusty, so ugly, so meaningless and feeble from being kept in the small cramped dark inside you so long."
Staying engaged with others is more difficult than it seems, as well. (As it's so easy to become completely self-absorbed and wrapped up in our misery while others are hurting, too)

Now, as for family dynamics and their role in later dysfunction and insecurity (and feeling unlovable) -- there are many lingering inaccurate beliefs surrounding eating disorders and how they develop. Male sufferers are not studied enough, first of all. Marya Hornbacher wrote an excellent memoir titled 'Wasted' many years ago; she's profoundly knowledgeable about the subject. I just now found this acadamic paper on the subject, which mentions her: http://www.aeternumjournal.com/image...l%20online.pdf
"According to the 2012 report to The Butterfly Foundation for Eating Disorders, there are
nearly a million people in Australia with these conditions (Butterfly Foundation 2012,
9). The same report states that there is no one cause of eating disorders, but “a complex
combination of genetic, cultural, social, physical and personality factors”

So, as with anything, there is no precise cause. There's a saying that goes "Genetics load the gun, environment pulls the trigger." I struggled with an eating disorder for nearly ten years; it was absolutely triggered by environmental factors. Being an intense, troubled child with a tumultuous (and inconsistent) homelife did not help. That's ALSO a common thread with many disorders and emotional ailments, I find (especially a fear of vulnerability) -- a history of love being given inconsistently, or with strict conditions. A wildly oscillating home atmosphere, swinging between relative-calm and tense (a raging father, or narcissistic mother). Many of us who are plagued with a deep insecurity and feelings of worthlessness also had a lack of emotion connection and bonding with our mothers for a period of time at an early age, I've noticed.

But yes, emotional regulation plays a big part as well. (though a bit more so in personality disorders) I've noticed this especially in bulimia sufferers, many of which are also bipolar.

Um.. But anyway! Your reply was lovely and insightful, as always
This all is why I find self-awareness and inner-work and integration so important; integrating those lost (or un-nourished in childhood) parts can be deeply healing.

[Delsol]

Nothing to add; just wanted to tell Confusionsay I love
the Star Trek analogy - brilliant!

Thank You Delsol. Great peace!