Did God change? From a murderer to a loving Father?

[WildHairedWoman]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

I was told to read 1 Samuel 15...I did...and I would like a discussion to open here on my question...
Can God change? Was he really a murderous God at one time....then
turned into a loving pussy cat later?

Could the Old Testament God not be the God Jesus points to as our Father in Heaven?
Did God have to be so intense in the Old T because that was all they could relate to at that time?
Whassup with all the murdering!?
If you think It is the same God...can you give your views on murdering, then the flip to the loving Heavenly Father I relate to?

I have heard diff things...I'm not bothered by this...I relate only to the loving God that has presented Himself to me personally.
I am in no position to debate any of this!
I will have to be a reader here only.
Thank you.

I also apologize if somewhere this has been brought up...the thread can be merged, if the Mods want to.

God didn't change, people did. Neither the new testament or the old testament have anything real to do with any god. Lewis Black, the comedian, has a line in one of his skits about Jews needing to be told not to mate with their siblings and parents because they were 2 hairs away from being monkeys. I think maybe that is one of the reasons the old testament is so different from the new testament. It was most likely originally an attempt at insuring survival of the human race. The old testament that you read is probably nothing like the original texts also for many reasons.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by WildHairedWoman

Neither the new testament or the old testament have anything
real to do with any god.

See, I knew I liked you.

2 hairs from monkeys.......can't stop laughing...

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Aknaton

The key here in understanding God's nature is "Grace". A fallen man redeemed not by his own efforts but by the Creators Love.

Man in the beginning was Divine because the Creator put something of Himself in him and so man was a co-creator. As God was Absolute, Man was Absolute in beingness as well.

Now, when man sought to know duality, this meant stepping down from absoluteness, and rather than experiencing things as absolute, he experienced duality. You cannot have Absolute - Consciousness and Duality - Consciousness, only one can stay. It's either you are in Samadhi or have a scattered mind.

Now, from the time man fell, he tried to regain the Absolute nature that he lost with his own effort; well, those of mankind who felt he was "missing something." This meant all sorts of religions, belief systems, mystic practices, sciences and fields of study, so on and so forth to "fill that missing space." The ladder of ascent begins, man relearning that he is indeed a god; a co Creator, but these teachings and doctrines originating from a dual being end up being dual.

Now, how does an Absolute God deal with a dual conscious man? An Impure man who by his own free will turned his back on his own Creator. In duality, man must now experience the Creator from a dual point of view and to a dual conscious man, this appears as though "God changes".

Now, the Creator Loved mankind and sought to bring back man to Absoluteness, and so He came in human form to carry out the work to bring this back. Man cannot restore to himself what he himself did not make. So the Creator subjected Himself to His win laws as this is Divine Justice, and He re-gives His Absoluteness once again to man and because man is now accustomed to a dual nature, gives him His Spirit to guide him towards Absoluteness from duality.

And so, my conclusion is that from a dualistic point of view, God seems to change, but not from an Absolute point of view.

Um...this would get an A+ in any Theology Class.
Very impressive.
Very advanced compared to most of the bozos on forums.

[Aknaton]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Um...this would get an A+ in any Theology Class.
Very impressive.
Very advanced compared to most of the bozos on forums.

Oh my! I'm so humbled to hear that!!! In meditation last night, I had forgotten about what I had posted and as I sat in meditation, the Absolute Being whom I call Father offered me a new perspective to add to what has been posted so far. And He brought me in seconds into a state I'd call "Absoluteness". Perhaps, Sri Sri Bhagawan Miss Hepburn, do I get an A+ in practice too?

I speak briefly about John 4:7-24 according to what the Father has shared with me.

Jesus tells a sincere woman that she has five husbands and Is on the sixth. I will give myself as an example. I married occultism, I married the new age, I married Kriya Yoga, I married all sorts of things to find the Absolute that I was lacking and I finally married "Pop Christianity" which also didn't satisfy my desire for Absoluteness. I did get experiences and learnt from them, they were all a stepping stone and I still do some of the practices.

I now make reference to Jesus and the sincere woman talking of the "place of worship" or rather let me say where the Truth can be sought, attained and enjoyed (worship). And this is when we worship Him in spirit and truth. Allow me to explain more based on my experience; in my experience as a Kriya yogi, I would sometimes enter states of oness with all creation, I would become the witness in great purity, length and intensity. But when we become "One with the Father" this same sakshi, the witness is lifted up by the Creator and goes to rest in Him. And the Intimacy this has is not of creature and Creator, but child and Father. In my Kriya meditation practice, sakshi only expanded and became more vast, in fact, sakshi was becoming more and more in union with shakti, but I did not know how this could be used to benefit others besides "raising planetary consciousness". Through occultism, I was able to tap into sakshi and shakti; High Priest & High Priestess (hello tarot!) and investigate various strata of creation through ritual, concentration practices, invocation and all to actual make some changes in my life and my own. With the mention of shakti, chakras are brought into mind, and the post is already lengthy so I will omit that part. But this is totally different from when the same I, the sakshi man that I truly am is lifted up into God's Fullness. And by being in Him allowed me to see how Adam was lord over the consciousness, power and form of creation.

But without the Spirit of the Creator, you can never be lifted up into His Absoluteness and He can never be found. As Jesus said, where I am going you will not find me, as His disciples thought that they could just follow him. But when the time came, Jesus from the unreachable, being one with the Father sent the promise of the Spirit that lifts us up to enter into His Absoluteness, and who else can give us the Absolute Spirit other than the Creator Himself... only the Creator can give this. In all the mystic ways and systems, there is an expansiveness, bliss, joy, but there is no rest and one continues to search through constantly expanding consciousness amd increasing the state and intensity of self gained oness.

As I was merged with the Creator, our communication was beyond concept communication, it was as though I was Him because I had access to what He had, But I couldn't contain all of it. And at the same time He was communicating to me as a Teacher, friend, Guru, and most of all as a Father to His son. And this is why I call Him Father. The Father - child relationship is one of Love first and foremost.

I understood why Jesus says He is one with the Father, that it is the Father who does the works and not Him, that it is the Father who releases to him and not of his own, so on and so forth. And this is true denial of self that the Father can fill us. How he showed us that we are to carry the cross and crucify the flesh and truly BE; the circumcision Saint Paul talks about. In my Kriya and occult practice, the self is denied for us to be empty. Kriya made me empty, and occultism linked me to "the gods and goddesses (devas)" who could fill that emptiness in different ways and flavors, but I was still thirsty, still searching. Whatever we find in creation can fill us but it depletes, and so we thirst again.

And as I being the Witness rested and communed (worship) with the Witness of witnesses, the God of gods (for we humans are gods), the Father, I found His Absoluteness and His Eternalness, His Infiniteness and Expansiveness, I found that Eternity does not Increase, Infinity does not fluctuate, All expansiveness does not rise in volume... Being a Statistician by profession and a student of the Unending can safely conclude that Infinity plus 1 is still infinity. Infinity plus 'n' is still Infinity. Infinity does not change, anything that can change, continue to fluctuate, evolve and expand is not Absolute, therefore God who is Infinite does not change. Simple mathematical logic!

This is what I learned from the Father and reasoned from my experience.

Aknaton

I am so pleased to see your writings.(they always touch me deeply)

I hope you share with us more often, time permitting.

I Love the family aspect of our Creator, for the biggest change in my life was and is
Being a childlike prodigal Son of the Creator of the All in All.
Which allows me to have humanity as Brothers and Sisters.
Along with seeing all of creation as my relatives.
Knowing I will never have to feel alone-ness ever again.

And to know that the Love I experience can only expand into the infinite Divine Love of
our Creator, what a ride, that fills me with tears of joy and they run over and cleanse me
from the inside out.

[Aknaton]

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

Aknaton

I am so pleased to see your writings.(they always touch me deeply)

I hope you share with us more often, time permitting.

I Love the family aspect of our Creator, for the biggest change in my life was and is
Being a childlike prodigal Son of the Creator of the All in All.
Which allows me to have humanity as Brothers and Sisters.
Along with seeing all of creation as my relatives.
Knowing I will never have to feel alone-ness ever again.

And to know that the Love I experience can only expand into the infinite Divine Love of
our Creator, what a ride, that fills me with tears of joy and they run over and cleanse me
from the inside out.

Thank you ImthatIm. Indeed, the feeling and awareness of this Love is what we need to know and experience; that the Father loves us.

And as you have said, so was it said by our dear king David, Deep calls unto deep at the noise of your waterfalls; all your waves and billows have gone over me. (Psalms 42:7)... This is Gnosis...

Being One with the Father, and constantly being aware of His Love for us, and being born into the realisation that His Love is In us and can flow through us... This is Gnosis...

The deep calling unto the deep, the spirit (divine spark) in us calling unto the Essence of the Creator (Divine Love) and at the same time the Essence in the Father calling unto the divine spark in us... A song sung in silence... This is Gnosis...

Beautiful!!!

[theophilus]

God never changes. He is both a righteous and holy God who demands that all sin be judged and is also a God of love. When Adam and Eve sinned he cursed the earth and brought death on all living creatures. But he did something else. Genesis 3:21 says, " And the Lord God made for Adam and for his wife garments of skins and clothed them." The first deaths that took place were the animals God killed to provide clothes for Adam and Eve. That we a sign of his love for them. Animals were sacrificed to proved coverings for those who had sinned. I made a post on another thread which explains the significance of this.
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...73&postcount=4

In the New Testament God has revealed more of his love but if you read the book of Revelation you will find that he still judges sin just as he did in the Old Testament.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Aknaton

<snip>
But without the Spirit of the Creator, you can never be lifted up into His Absoluteness and He can never be found.

-...and who else can give us the Absolute Spirit other than the Creator Himself... only the Creator can give this.
-As I was merged with the Creator, our communication was beyond concept communication,
it was as though I was Him because I had access to what He had,
-...He was communicating to me as a Teacher, friend, Guru, and most of all as a Father to His son.
And this is why I call Him Father.

-I understood why Jesus says He is one with the Father, that it is the Father who does the works and not Him...**

And as I being the Witness rested and communed (worship) with the Witness of witnesses,
the God of gods (for we humans are gods), the Father, I found His Absoluteness and His Eternalness,
His Infiniteness and Expansiveness, I found that Eternity does not Increase, Infinity does not fluctuate,
All expansiveness does not rise in volume...
Being a Statistician by profession and a student of the Unending
can safely conclude that Infinity plus 1 is still infinity.
Infinity plus 'n' is still Infinity.
Infinity does not change, anything that can change, continue to fluctuate, evolve and expand
is not Absolute, therefore God who is Infinite does not change.
Simple mathematical logic!

This is what I learned from the Father and reasoned from my experience.

Ha! ...that was absolutely fabulous!!!!!!

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Aknaton

... Indeed, the feeling and awareness of this Love is what we need to know and experience; that the Father loves us.

And as you have said, so was it said by our dear king David, Deep calls unto deep at the noise of your waterfalls; all your waves and billows have gone over me. (Psalms 42:7)... This is Gnosis...

Being One with the Father, and constantly being aware of His Love for us, and being born into the realisation that His Love is In us and can flow through us... This is Gnosis...

The deep calling unto the deep, the spirit (divine spark) in us calling unto the Essence of the Creator (Divine Love) and at the same time the Essence in the Father calling unto the divine spark in us... A song sung in silence... This is Gnosis...

Wow. And...Yes!

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by jojo50

humans change because they learn and grow. we are imperfect beings, we were created. we came in NOT knowing ANYTHING. Jehovah God, (Exo. 6:3),was NEVER CREATED ,(Isa.44:6 Thus said the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God).

he is an ALL KNOWING God, (Luke 12:7 “Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows”). see (1John 3:20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things).

he does NOT need to Learn and Grow and he doesn't need to change ,(Mal. 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore you sons of Jacob are not consumed).

Here is something to agree with you on, jojo.
You really assent to sky's declaration Hep?

So once again? Science today has been telling us about the nature of the material world, in time and space.
You're disagreeing with Einstein, and findings since!

Again, as Buddha attested to, that which is apart from the illusory, has no need to change.
That which is Perfect, timeless, has no need to, "evolve".

All of the aeons of time, from the initiation of this universe to now, wherein you've made such errant and baseless statements, is nothing compared to the timeless, and to eternity, wherein perfection abides.