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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > General Beliefs

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  #181  
Old 27-01-2020, 03:16 AM
sourcetruth sourcetruth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
Fingers vs moon


I have no doubt that having a complete and coherent picture of reality can be a comforting sort of thing to have. Science itself is man’s never ending quest to create such a coherent picture and to lock it down in cold hard logical mathematical terms. After all, we can argue with each other about reality, but we can’t argue with math. Yet we can never quite get the math completely solved. Even the relatively minor imprecisions of Newton’s science, when pulled upon by Einstein, unraveled Newtonian physics and lead to the development of the theory of relativity.

Do you not find it interesting that so much of the math that underlies our best logical and rational picture of “reality” should include so many irrational numbers? Take Pi for example, it crops up all over the place in the equations that appear to govern this matrix/dream/universe, yet we can never know its precise value. We can, for eternity, continue to calculate it’s value within one more order of magnitude of precision, yet we can never get it exact. In one sense, its true value, no matter how close we feel we have calculated it, is always infinitely far away.

One of my favorite stories is all about Pi. You are likely to have read the book or seen the movie, if not, I highly recommend it, its title is, “Life of Pi”. It is, IMO, a true spiritual masterpiece. One part of the story that comes to mind is when Pi drifts across an island.

For weeks Pi, a 16 year old boy from India, has been floating adrift in a lifeboat on the vast Pacific ocean after the ship he was on sank, taking his entire family with it to the bottom. Pi is not alone however, he has Richard Parker for a companion on his lifeboat with him, only Richard happens to be a full grown Bengal tiger who is liable to kill and consume him at any time. Learning how to live on a lifeboat with a full grown man eating tiger without being consumed by it, though it be a seemingly impossible task, does have its upside. It keeps him occupied and helps to slow the inevitable descent into insanity that, being alone with only ones thoughts under such terrible circumstances, would otherwise be likely to consume his mind. In time, a relationship is established that at least gives Pi enough room to take his eyes off the tiger and look up at the night sky. And so he drifts on the vast Pacific ocean, night after night looking up at the vastness of the universe, feeling his own insignificance in comparison, wondering if God is there, if God knows of his suffering, or if God even cares.

Now just when it seems he is likely to succumb, his boats drifts across a strange floating island composed of edible algae. There is ample fresh water, and a large population of meerkats for his tiger to consume rather than dining on Pi. So it would seem that his prayers of salvation have been answered. However, all is not as it first seemed. It turns out that as darkness sets in, his seemingly godsent oasis excretes acid to dissolve and consume any who remain on the ground or in its pools of fresh water. Once daylight begins to fade, he and the thousands of meerkats must escape into the trees, and the tiger must head back to the lifeboat to spend the night, lest they all be dissolved and consumed by the carnivorous island. Painfully, he realizes that he must leave his oasis and head back out to once again take his chances, drifting on the vast ocean, not knowing where land is to be found or if he will ever feel its firmness under his feet again. It is a wonderful book, “a story to make you believe in God.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XnPhIKlUM4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QU7QylajLbQ

Anyway, I do like your analogy of looking for the puzzle pieces. Puzzles are both fun and useful things. They can help keep the mind occupied when it has too much time available, keep it from drifting off to who knows where, being consumed by its own unanswered questions and unspoken fears. We start with what seems to be an endless pile of unrelated forms, each a different shape and pattern of colors, and slowly and painstakingly we see how they go together. Although it is frustratingly slow going at first, the further along we get the faster it goes until eventually a completed picture emerges from the morase of seemingly unrelated forms. Some will frame their completed puzzle and hang it on the wall, but I think this is a mistake. It is best to appreciate it for a time and then break it apart again, put the pieces back into the box, and get started on a new one. I have found that if I do not do this, I end up trying to make the new puzzle look like the old one, and this will not work.

Completing a puzzle can be very satisfying, even if one does cheat a bit and look at the picture on the box ahead of time. I have to confess, I always do look at the box ahead of time. I don’t like the idea of spending all that time piecing together a picture unless at the end I am to be rewarded with something beautiful.

It is funny how much value viewing a beautiful picture can have for me, despite the fact that I know it is just a picture of something, and not the thing itself. I suppose some would argue that it is “just a picture”, “not real”, “just an illusion”. “Better to get one's head out of the clouds and spend one’s time in pursuit of real things”. Perhaps they are right, but as for me, I have come to believe that as far as forms are concerned, there is no difference between realities and illusions, and I am good with that. It is not the forms that are important anyway, they are all predestined to fade to formlessness by the dictates of the second law. It is what the forms have to show me along the way that is important, and that is beyond form.

I suppose life can be thought of as a puzzle, only there is no box to look at before getting started. If we want to see the picture, we are stuck finding and putting together the pieces until the image emerges from the forms. Yet I go on puzzling anyway, because even though I know whatever emerges will be just a picture, an illusion of forms, I have faith that it will nevertheless be a picture of profound beauty. That though it be just an illusion of form, it will somehow move and grow my soul in ways that are beyond form. That the beauty in that picture will give me the strength of faith to go on to the next puzzle after that, and the one after that. Perhaps I am looking for a picture of God that I may never see, or could even recognize if I did. Perhaps it is all just a frustrating and irrational use of my time, as I am limited to seeing only one picture at a time. Or perhaps each picture brings me one more order of magnitude closer to seeing God. And so I drift along, sifting through the forms and putting them together, watching them come to life and dance before me, trying to look through and beyond them, hoping to be transformed by whatever beauty they may have to show me.

FYI: Volume is a bit low on this clip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DzpxSCqNK8


P.S.
If you are so inclined, you can celebrate world Pi day on 3.14 (March 14th). Some do so by reciting the value of Pi, from memory, out to tens of thousands of significant digits. It is very interesting to see how they go about memorizing such a long chain of otherwise seemingly random numbers. Personally, I think I will celebrate by enjoying one of my favorite movies with a piece of one of my favorite kinds of pie…. cherry, shaker lemon, maybe even turkey pot… hard to decide.
https://www.livescience.com/50134-pi...y-experts.html

Very interesting... There are so many avenues and directions to still explore, but I really feel that I have a clear direction to go into for my further exploration. I believe that I am on the right track, noe it will only take further pursuit.
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  #182  
Old 28-01-2020, 06:50 PM
Pagandell Pagandell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spirit Guide Sparrow
Dear Pagandell,

I would wager your welfare has wavered in preceding weeks.
Discontentment and dissatisfaction have dutifully danced their discouragement determinedly throughout days past.

It would not be a stretch to subtly speak of months.

Let the words of past wisdom wield a way to your present welfare and well-being.

Wi-Fi connection you may seek, but it is not the connection you desire.

Bring your focus into the moment, and simply breathe your Self from your heart. This moment belongs to you.

-Sparrow
Thank you Sparrow your words never fail to reach me like a healing light. Or like a gentle breeze dancing to the sound of a song bird of the night.
I love to be captured by your cosmic spell.
And the spiritual truths you speak of so very well
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How many times does an angel fall.

How many people lie instead of talking tall.

quote David Bowie Black Star.
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  #183  
Old 29-01-2020, 08:14 AM
God-Like God-Like is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
What are these "peeps" you keep referring too?

Sorry ketzer, I hadn't seen this ..

Peeps are just people ..



x daz x
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Everything under the sun is in tune,but the sun is eclipsed by the moon.
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  #184  
Old 31-01-2020, 02:55 PM
ketzer ketzer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourcetruth
Very interesting... There are so many avenues and directions to still explore, but I really feel that I have a clear direction to go into for my further exploration. I believe that I am on the right track, noe it will only take further pursuit.
Well then, it seems you have found your solid ground. QC provides explanations for just about any question you could ask. She paints a fascinating picture of reality. Function is coherently explained, the forms fit together, yet I don't see beauty in the picture. My instincts are telling me that this ground is not a solid as it appears, so I think I will continue to float about. Hopefully when the dark times do inevitably set in, your beliefs will not corrode away on you.
Good luck.
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  #185  
Old 31-01-2020, 02:57 PM
ketzer ketzer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God-Like
Sorry ketzer, I hadn't seen this ..

Peeps are just people ..



x daz x
What makes the so just?
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  #186  
Old 03-02-2020, 03:35 AM
sourcetruth sourcetruth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
Well then, it seems you have found your solid ground. QC provides explanations for just about any question you could ask. She paints a fascinating picture of reality. Function is coherently explained, the forms fit together, yet I don't see beauty in the picture. My instincts are telling me that this ground is not a solid as it appears, so I think I will continue to float about. Hopefully when the dark times do inevitably set in, your beliefs will not corrode away on you.
Good luck.

I think that the real question here is thinking about what makes up what we think of as a solid foundation. In these kinds of questions, this is of critical importance of when we try to determine if we have a solid foundation. In fact, the kinds of inquiry we are engaging in may even cause us to call into question how we think of what makes a solid foundation, and reevaluate it, because of the nature of these issues.
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  #187  
Old 04-02-2020, 01:37 AM
ketzer ketzer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourcetruth
I think that the real question here is thinking about what makes up what we think of as a solid foundation. In these kinds of questions, this is of critical importance of when we try to determine if we have a solid foundation. In fact, the kinds of inquiry we are engaging in may even cause us to call into question how we think of what makes a solid foundation, and reevaluate it, because of the nature of these issues.
Very true. I suppose any solid forms are in the end just creations of our own consciousness. With that in mind, it makes sense to take any construction of reality with a grain of salt. QC's constructed reality is interesting, and entertaining, but in the end, it is just one of many different ways to metaphorically represent our life experience. An experience that in the end is not based on forms as forms don't exist as such until our consciousness forms them within, just props to facilitate the story we have chosen to experience. Whether it is better to understand the forms are just props, or to believe them to be "real" and experience the story more viscerally, I can't really say. Advantages to either I suppose.
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  #188  
Old 07-02-2020, 04:32 PM
sourcetruth sourcetruth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
Very true. I suppose any solid forms are in the end just creations of our own consciousness. With that in mind, it makes sense to take any construction of reality with a grain of salt. QC's constructed reality is interesting, and entertaining, but in the end, it is just one of many different ways to metaphorically represent our life experience. An experience that in the end is not based on forms as forms don't exist as such until our consciousness forms them within, just props to facilitate the story we have chosen to experience. Whether it is better to understand the forms are just props, or to believe them to be "real" and experience the story more viscerally, I can't really say. Advantages to either I suppose.

In the case of there being multiple possible constructions, we would need various standards by which to evaluate these various constructions. We must start by establishing a foundation by which we view reality through, and then with this we can evaluate the foundations of the various constructions. In Quartz Crystal's construction of reality, it is based on idealism (version of monism which asserts only mind fundanetally exists).

If we can establish idealism, we can rule out other constructions not based on it. Then we can work form the bottom up to see if our foundations support what follows aftwerwards in the construction.
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  #189  
Old 08-02-2020, 03:14 AM
ketzer ketzer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourcetruth
In the case of there being multiple possible constructions, we would need various standards by which to evaluate these various constructions. We must start by establishing a foundation by which we view reality through, and then with this we can evaluate the foundations of the various constructions. In Quartz Crystal's construction of reality, it is based on idealism (version of monism which asserts only mind fundanetally exists).

If we can establish idealism, we can rule out other constructions not based on it. Then we can work form the bottom up to see if our foundations support what follows aftwerwards in the construction.

But is not any foundation we establish based on ideas. Even the version of idealism you establish is an idea about what exists and what doesn't. The conclusions may follow from the premises, but the premises are assumed, not established. If we accept one foundation as truth and then use it to evaluate the foundations of others, then all we are accomplishing is to filter reality based on the set of standards we have premised as real. Which is fine, this is more or less how any one finite experience of reality is drawn out from the infinity of realities that lie within the mind of God (or source if you prefer). Even if we delude ourselves into believing our selected reality construct is the one true reality with which to judge others as false, that only deepens our experience of that selected reality.
Its a trade off I suppose. The deeper we are drawn into a story, the more real and intense it seems to be, and the more moving the experience of it becomes. If we keep our distance and maintain some objectivity, then it becomes more of an observation and analysis of the story, a different kind of experience. First person vs third. Ultimately, they are all stories, different morals and different ways to discover them, different ways to grow from the experiences. Each story perhaps illustrative of different profound truths, yet the profound truths are still just the fingers pointing to the moon, not the moon itself.
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