Quantum Mechanic!

[love9]

Originally Posted by r6r6r

The key part of this scenario is that of the two particles being in a state / phase of 'uncertainty'( Heisnberg ), at least until we the human make an observation of one of the particles( A1 ) there is then alledged to be an instant knowing of this observation by the other particle( A2 ) so, it is no longer in a phase of uncertainty.

This 'spooky-action-at-distance' appears to defy space, time, logic, reaon and rational thinking, and that all revolves around the uncertainty principle as proposed discoverred by Heisngberg.

I belive, that, there exists uncertainty at our human level, but not a the gravitational spacetime level, i.e. by whatever means /mode of transpeortation, the two particles A1 and A2 are connected via gravitational spacetime and the alledged instantaneity, is not truly instant.
r6

Hey thanks r6r6r for your reply, very interesting observations!

I have a question, since A1 and A2 have the same proprieties, characteristics, would it be possible that A1 be more influence by the immediate environment (static electric, heat, cold, etc) than A2?

And do you think that A1 and A2 have the same mass, I'm not sure if this question is valid though!

A more far fetch one, since we are in a Quantum analysis, would you think possible that the thoughts process of the researcher may influence on either path of A1 or A2?

Thanks again, the best to you!

[r6r6]

=love9]Hey thanks r6r6r for your reply, very interesting observations! I have a question, since A1 and A2 have the same proprieties, characteristics, would it be possible that A1 be more influence by the immediate environment (static electric, heat, cold, etc) than A2?

Welcome. If I understand you correctly, your concern is that once A splits into A1 and A2, that environmental influences can affect one particle more than the other.

I agree, however, what ever that influence, if such influence causes one of those two particles to no longer be in state / phase of uncertainty then it is conventially accepted, the other particle, instantly adopts the opposite state / phase.

The only possible enviromental influence that affect that instantaneous affect, imho, would have to involve a black holes even horizon, seperating those two particles.

You may recall that this one scenario Hawking adopted, in regards to differrent consideration involving virtual particles.

So the short answer, is no, enviromental influences do not affect the alledged instantaneous affect. Good question tho, cause if my idea that there is gravitational transference of that info of one particle, then we might expect, that, there might be some kind of interfence along the way.

But the cosmos of gravity may have this all taken into account already, and those two may be linked on a geodesic gravitational field membrane, that bypasses all our medio-macro existence, at least until we actuall make and observation of each particle.

And do you think that A1 and A2 have the same mass, I'm not sure if this question is valid though!

I would think so, but I cant say that is actually the case of it matters in relation to charge or spin or whatevet two opposits are part of the 'spooky-action-at-a-distance' scenario.

A more far fetch one, since we are in a Quantum analysis, would you think possible that the thoughts process of the researcher may influence on either path of A1 or A2?

Only so far as, those aspects of thought that may be associated with EM-Radiaion( photoninc quanta ) and gravity. For me, I believe that telepathy has to do with a gravitational field of the whole body, that resonates in enough places with another body in enought and the right places, to say we believe there was telepathy.

Also, keep in mind, that, in scenarios where Bobby says he felt his mother dies on the other side of the planet instantly, keep in mind, that, even at speeds-or-radiation, the information could go around the planet, geodesically, faste enough that it may appear to you that it was exactly that instant, when actually it may have been 30 seconds or minute or however long it takes a photon to go around or through the planet.

Very long EM waves could possible go through the planet, but I'm not sure what frequencys for thought we are talking about and nobody really does, because there is no scientifically conclusive evidence of such phenomena.

If it is gravity transferance of information, then we may be talking faster-than-radition, but still NOT instant. Rater, maybe 10 seconds or 50 a minute. I dont have the math for EMRadiation over that distance and gravity speeds has some data as being observed also as same speed-of-radiation, but those test leave and error potential .2% ergo that small amount means gravity could be operating just over the limit of radiation, and then again,

as stated previously, any speed--- even a fraction --over radiations speed, may eternally appear to us as being instantaneous, even tho it is not.

God( ess ) does not play dice, means that all of the Universe is cause and effect, even tho we may not be able to observe and map all of those multitude of interactions and interrelationships, for what ever reasons.

Thanks again, the best to you!

Welcome, hope some of it makes rational, logical and common sense to you.

Metaphysical1:
...mind, intellect abstract concepts...\
...concepts of space etc, not a space ocupied or not...

-------------

Space:
Metaphysical-2;
....non-occupied space beyond our finite Universe...

Metaphysical-3;
..gravity....
...occupied space.....

Physical / energy;
..occupied space....
..fermions, bosons and any combination thereof....

"Start with the whole and nothing can be left out"...Bucky Fuller

r6

[IsleWalker]

Originally Posted by Rawnrr

This is a phenomena that has fascinated me for a long time.
I want to throw out an idea I had regarding it (and I know it is unconventional...so you may laugh at me as being an idiot for even suggesting it LOL)....But suppose that this particle that is showing 'spooky-action-at-distance' is not really 2 separate particles, but it is in fact one particle whose nature exists outside of our "time/space" manifestation. As such, from our point of view it may appear to be in 2 particles because they are in different places, but that appearance is only because we are looking at it from a time/space perspective. But in reality (well.."it's reality") it is just one particle, so obviously what we do to it in one space will be seen in the other as well, because it is just one.
This could also explain other quantum weirdness.....but I will stick to that point and let that go where it may ;)

Just throwing it out there....feel free to bash me with science LOL

Rawn

Exactly, Rawn. It's not a crazy idea at all!

Lora

[r6r6]

Hi rawn, sorry I missed your reply to me first time around. Isle helped me to see your light

Yeah, I think were on similar page of thought.

EMRadiation and its limited speed is what we observe--- amongest other things ---and is labeled / indentified as our "reality".

We observer photons indirectly via electrons but we can manipulate photons to a great degree, whereas with gravity, we know only a very little and from even more indirect sources and we do not, as of yet, manipulate gravity, as we do so often with EM-radiation( photons ).

I believe gravity is a geodesic membrane / fabric that occupies space, and embraces the our whole finite occupied space of Universe, we call physical / energy as fermions, bosons and any combination thereof.

I believe this gravitational membrane embraces every particle and connects all a particles. So in this sense, we may think of gravity as one whole particle that encompasses all fermionic and bosonic particles.

Know what I mean? For a moment, pretend you are a God( ess ) that exists outside of our finite Universe, holding this whole Universe in your hands.

Now put as this God( ess ) put on your filtering sunglasses, so that, as you look in upon the Universe you hold in your hands, you block-out all fermions, bosons and any combiination thereof, and only see gravity.

I believe you would see something that resembles a cluster of spherical geodesics, and these geodesics are composed of great circle tubes( tori / toures ), sort of like a cluster of pretezels in 3D overlatpping and intertwined and tangent here and there.

This would be a wholistic, geodesic, gravitational field. imho

The great circle, spherical definning tubes, would embrace each and every individual fermionic and bosonic particle of Universe, adn be connected to the next one and on and on an on to all szes.

As humans, not God(ess)es, we only see fermions the bosons and not the ultra-micro, gravitational field, of great circle-liek tubular tori, in a myriad of clustered arrangements.

So still, the question remains, where and how do make or observe the connections between ultra-micro gravity and our more medio-macro existence.

We see indirect evidence of gravity in distant orbiting pairs of binary pulsars.

Penrose and Hammeroff propose a connection at the micro-tubular level via quantum photons or electrons or what exactly is not yet clear, as our window to consciousness.

I'm curious as to the behaviour of these micro-tubulars during unconscious sleep vs conscious consciousness. Do they expand-contract, become more or less excited.

Some believe that sleep is when a more free flowing 'astral travel' occurs.

I dunno.

r6

Originally Posted by Rawnrr

.But suppose that this particle that is showing 'spooky-action-at-distance' is not really 2 separate particles, but it is in fact one particle whose nature exists outside of our "time/space" manifestation. As such, from our point of view it may appear to be in 2 particles because they are in different places, but that appearance is only because we are looking at it from a time/space perspective. But in reality (well.."it's reality") it is just one particle, so obviously what we do to it in one space will be seen in the other as well, because it is just one.
This could also explain other quantum weirdness.....but I will stick to that point and let that go where it may ;)
Just throwing it out there....feel free to bash me with science LOL
Rawn

Nice! Finally a way to show how consciousness is physical and from the brain. I need to share this in another thread.

[IsleWalker]

Originally Posted by Adept

Nice! Finally a way to show how consciousness is physical and from the brain. I need to share this in another thread.

What part of this discussion do you feel proves this? IMO it's a misstatement of quantum theory to conclude that.

Lora

Originally Posted by IsleWalker

What part of this discussion do you feel proves this? IMO it's a misstatement of quantum theory to conclude that.

Lora

What do you mean? Assuming this is true and consciousness arises thanks to normal brain operations and quantum mechanical ones, it proves that the brain precedes higher consciousness. Honestly I've never wrapped my mind around how so many people think higher consciousness magic appears from absolutely nowhere, but it's nice to have math and neuroscience backing the logic and psychological evidence.

[Rawnrr]

All it concludes is that the brain has the capacity to work on the quantum level as a processor, it would be a massive jump to assume that consciousness itself is formed by the brain.
(and I should note that the quantum realm existed prior to the development of the brain...so the chicken is still in front of the egg LOL)

[Rawnrr]

Originally Posted by r6r6r

Hi rawn, sorry I missed your reply to me first time around. Isle helped me to see your light

Yeah, I think were on similar page of thought.

EMRadiation and its limited speed is what we observe--- amongest other things ---and is labeled / indentified as our "reality".

We observer photons indirectly via electrons but we can manipulate photons to a great degree, whereas with gravity, we know only a very little and from even more indirect sources and we do not, as of yet, manipulate gravity, as we do so often with EM-radiation( photons ).

I believe gravity is a geodesic membrane / fabric that occupies space, and embraces the our whole finite occupied space of Universe, we call physical / energy as fermions, bosons and any combination thereof.

I believe this gravitational membrane embraces every particle and connects all a particles. So in this sense, we may think of gravity as one whole particle that encompasses all fermionic and bosonic particles.

Know what I mean? For a moment, pretend you are a God( ess ) that exists outside of our finite Universe, holding this whole Universe in your hands.

Now put as this God( ess ) put on your filtering sunglasses, so that, as you look in upon the Universe you hold in your hands, you block-out all fermions, bosons and any combiination thereof, and only see gravity.

I believe you would see something that resembles a cluster of spherical geodesics, and these geodesics are composed of great circle tubes( tori / toures ), sort of like a cluster of pretezels in 3D overlatpping and intertwined and tangent here and there.

This would be a wholistic, geodesic, gravitational field. imho

The great circle, spherical definning tubes, would embrace each and every individual fermionic and bosonic particle of Universe, adn be connected to the next one and on and on an on to all szes.

As humans, not God(ess)es, we only see fermions the bosons and not the ultra-micro, gravitational field, of great circle-liek tubular tori, in a myriad of clustered arrangements.

So still, the question remains, where and how do make or observe the connections between ultra-micro gravity and our more medio-macro existence.

We see indirect evidence of gravity in distant orbiting pairs of binary pulsars.

Penrose and Hammeroff propose a connection at the micro-tubular level via quantum photons or electrons or what exactly is not yet clear, as our window to consciousness.

I'm curious as to the behaviour of these micro-tubulars during unconscious sleep vs conscious consciousness. Do they expand-contract, become more or less excited.

Some believe that sleep is when a more free flowing 'astral travel' occurs.

I dunno.

r6

"Know what I mean?"

Well...not really, but I do find it an interesting perspective. The nuances of which I will have to ponder a while to get the feel for.

Rawn

[Rawnrr]

Originally Posted by IsleWalker

Exactly, Rawn. It's not a crazy idea at all!

Lora

Not crazy???.....be careful..that may shatter my image LOL

Thanx :)


Rawn