Will science ever be able to prove the afterlife?

[r6r6]

organic born---"Absolute truths" are still approximations.

We disagree then.

Neil deGrasse Tyson answered the question, “What is gravity?”
“I have no idea,” he joked. I don’t know.”

Yes he does know that gravity is mass-attraction, just as stated previously. I also stated even if we do not the exact mechanism we know we certainty mass-attracts, and so does Tyson.

....but we really don't know what it "is"......

We do know what regular/symmetrical polyhedra are and we know with certainty that, there can not exist more than those five.

You may not know, but I and many others do know with certainty. My guess Tyson knows that with certainty also.

If you want I can find you we sites that make this knowledge perfectly clear.

We know with certainty, that, the moon orbits the Earth. IF you dont know that with certainty, I can give you links to web sites that clarify this certainty of knowledge.

The list goes on and on, OgB.

r6

[organic born]

Originally Posted by r6r6r

You may not know, but I and many others do know with certainty. My guess Tyson knows that with certainty also.

If you want I can find you we sites that make this knowledge perfectly clear.

We know with certainty, that, the moon orbits the Earth. IF you dont know that with certainty, I can give you links to web sites that clarify this certainty of knowledge.

The list goes on and on, OgB.

r6

It would seem that we've been down this road once before. You embrace absolutes and I'm hitting the pause button. You haven't been out of body yet. So to you everything seems innately solid. But once out of body becomes a part of your experience such assumptions are no longer sustainable. In relation to this discussion your are missing a key component, the afterlife revolves around rules that are far more flexible than the condensed appearance of seemingly solid matter. What appears certain at this wavelength is merely an approximation when our exposure is widened.

Essentially we're at an impasse on this one because we are both reading from differing exposures. We need the kind of science that you're invested in because we happen to be physical and the ability to navigate this level of experience needs the rules that comes with this menu. I'm simply pointing at something quite different, which you'll be appraised of and readily embrace when your time comes to leave this physicalized network.

This is, after all, a spiritual forum, so you'll likely get people like me along the way who have been exposed to stuff that's a bit off the normal beaten path. :) Should you accept what I'm saying on faith? Goodness no, the last thing we need is more of that nonsense. But it doesn't hurt to keep tucked away, back in your mind, the idea that things aren't exactly what they seem to be, it's that very idea that makes good science so vibrant.

Curiosity for the unusual is pretty-much the door-opener to everything. :)

[r6r6]

organic born-- So to you everything seems innately solid.

Wood, sheetrock and cinder block walls are solid yet various frequencies of EMRadiation pass through seeming solid walls. This is just ordinary every day phenomena of fact that has nothing to with any so called "out of body" experience.

Mass-attracts is gravity and Tyson knows that with certainty. Like all of us, he just doesnt know the exact mechanisms. Ive made that clear.

Tyson knows, and is certain, that, the moon orbits the Earth. If your so called "out of body" experiences make doubtful of some well documented everyday facts, then, you maybe still to far out of your body to know with certainty what many people on Earth do know.

What appears certain at this wavelength is merely an approximation when our exposure is widened.

There is wide range of EMRadiation frequencies, They are aka the EM Spectrum and that is just photons and are well documented certainties of science.

Fermions also have specific frequencies.

Essentially we're at an impasse on this one because we are both reading from differing exposures.

I'mm presenting you with well documented facts of certainty and you appear to be in denial of these truths as presented to you.

There can only exist five regular/symmetrical polyhedra of Universe. When you, OgB, have evidence that is not an absolute truth, please share.

I'm simply pointing at something quite different, which you'll be appraised of and readily embrace when your time comes to leave this physicalized network.

Huh? Please clarify and speak with specificity of what "leave this physicalized network" means. Do yo mean when we die?

After-life is death. After-life death means we do not live on to tell our story as a live human. Death is the end of the live, biological human, cow, dog, worm etc.

This is, after all, a spiritual forum, so you'll likely get people like me along the way who have been exposed to stuff that's a bit off the normal beaten path.

Ive laid out very specifically and clearly the four primary kinds of spirit that exist, in many threads around here over the years.

r6

[organic born]

Originally Posted by r6r6r

Wood, sheetrock and cinder block walls are solid yet various frequencies of EMRadiation pass through seeming solid walls. This is just ordinary every day phenomena of fact that has nothing to with any so called "out of body" experience.

Now how would you know that? This is not very scientific of you. You've yet to be out of body so you're applying interpretations without proper investigations.

When out of body, nothing is solid. Solidity relies on perception.. while physical, "perception" is a result of our senses. Now you've done some studying so you're aware of the fact that our senses only relate to a very narrow band of specifically occurring stimuli. The frequencies of energies above and below this specifically occurring spectrum (of which the gradients-of-expression are in the trillions) is beyond us.

We would need to leave our body in order to perceive much more than we do. And that's what out-of-body tends to be good for. But even at that we're still restricted to what information we can return with. We've spent a lifetime defining things within a "physical" format so we're stuck having to severely stretch those definitions in order to encompass such things that are outside this long-practiced paradigm.

To our narrow band of senses the drywall does appear, feel, smells and, as we tap it, sound to be solid. All this is in relation to our current state of being, and such is limited, as is easily determined.

The best that I can tell you, is that when out-of-body things appear to be far more alive. The drywall itself has an existence that extends far beyond what we readily perceive. The materials within the drywall are naturally occurring, it's only drywall because we shaped it as such. The energy that composes the materials within the drywall extend beyond our ability to experience.

So, as humanly oriented, we define in narrow terms, and our sciences and philosophies will reflect this exposure. What I've been seeing doesn't come with words, they are direct experiences that reflect a language that is customized to the vibrations in which they're occurring in.

In order for this conversation to move closer to what I've been seeing I would need for you to join me in just such a thing. But since obe's for me are blessedly rare (I currently feel more comfortable within this mindset rather than that one) and I can't do so on demand, the possibility of me bringing you along would be statistically unlikely.

So, be it as it may, since I'm physical I can see what you're seeing, but I can also see a bit beyond that. It's not very far beyond that, mind you, I can only bring back what I'm conditioned to perceive, I'm restricted to this paradigm much the way you are.. but it's different enough to know that "reality" is far more expansive.. so much so, to suggest, that things clearly are not as they seem.

[r6r6]

organic born---Now how would you know that?
This is not very scientific of you.

How do I know that some frequencies of EMRadiation pass through trees, walls of sheetrock, glass etc, because I know from experience. I have owned radio and tv that recieved EM signal through those materials/substances.

You've yet to be out of body so you're applying interpretations without proper investigations.

How do you know that I have not had this alledged "out of body" experience, but dont perceive or identify that experience as you do.

When out of body, nothing is solid. Solidity relies on perception.. while physical, "perception" is a result of our senses.

Physical and solid both = occupied space to me. Until your able to refine the definitions of your words, then we will have difficulty having rational, logical common sense communication.

The frequencies of energies above and below this specifically occurring spectrum (of which the gradients-of-expression are in the trillions) is beyond us.

Humans design technologies that detect wide range of EMRadiation frequencies, beyond what the the human body detects or is aware of, so humans are not limited in the ability to know of EMRadiational frequences beyond that of our five, nervous system senses.

We would need to leave our body in order to perceive much more than we do. And that's what out-of-body tends to be good for.

We, humans are our body and metaphysical-1 mind/intellect/concepts ergo the ego aka I in I-verse and the metaphysical-1 verse/narrative we tell ourselves.

There is also the verse we act out physically/energetically/motion over time ^v^v frequency.

But even at that we're still restricted to what information we can return with. We've spent a lifetime defining things within a "physical" format so we're stuck having to severely stretch those definitions in order to encompass such things that are outside this long-practiced paradigm.

Physical/energy = occupied space and comes in two basic kinds of particles, fermionic matter and bosonic forces

There is newly discovered third kind and/or 4th kind that is a hybrid of this two of sorts, but the info on those are in their infancy and involve very cold temperatures.

The energy that composes the materials within the drywall extend beyond our ability to experience.

Again, your not being specific when you use the word energy. What specific energy are you talking about? You need more refined specifics of what it is you mean.

I use alsi use the terms physical/energy in a general way and then I go into specific subcatagories that humans have actually observed/detected and in many cases quantised and quantified.

Some of your energy remains a generalized, ambigous, vague and lacking refined specifics. Ergo cryptic.

What I've been seeing doesn't come with words, they are direct experiences that reflect a language that is customized to the vibrations in which they're occurring in.

All youve stated is some ambigous energy you call "out of body". Cryptic and lacks refined specificity.

....the possibility of me bringing you along would be statistically unlikely...

I'm not convinced you have any idea what it is your experiencing irrespective of if you choose to label it "out of body".

Some may call dreaming and "out of body" experience. Many humans have dreamed over many years of human existence. Nothing extra-ordinary and not someone understood via lab experiements on the brain during sleep.

So, be it as it may, since I'm physical I can see what you're seeing, but I can also see a bit beyond that.

Vipers see infra-red{ heat } so what. Again, humans detect many things we do not detect with our nervous system directly. Ive yet to see you offer any specifics that have much validity beyond the word you use to choose are your words and/or words also used by some others, to define some experience.

It's not very far beyond that, mind you, I can only bring back what I'm conditioned to perceive, I'm restricted to this paradigm much the way you are.. but it's different enough to know that "reality" is far more expansive.. so much so, to suggest, that things clearly are not as they seem.

Humans did know about many invisible them over history. With instruments/technology we have come to quantize/quantify what is invisible with specific clarity now.

Recently humans detected gravity waves ---via LIGO and ViRGO on Earth-- at scales of existence that are 1/10,000 the diameter of a proton. I consider that ultra-micro.

If you are detecting something that is beyond the scales of existence, then please attempt to be more specific of what it is exactly.

Terrance McKenna the mushroom guy thought it was aliens from another dimension. What does he mean my another dimension? Hyper-space ie, hyper-dimensions are maths derived from XYZ, 3D, 90 degree cartesian maths wherin hyper-dimensions are curled with in the 3D at ultra-micro scales of existence.

So maybe Terrance, you and others are detecting dimensions at ultra-micro scales beyond gravity and dark energy. Maybe not. You not only have much in the way of specific kinds of energy --ex fermion or boson-- you what you do offer is vague, ambigous generalizations.

I will tell you his beyond ordinary humans and that is idiot savants, who for the most part, cannot function normally in society becuase their brain is so focused in specific, extra-ordinary photographic memory or other kinds of specific abilities ex to hear something and play it back exactly on a musical instrument.

ebuc

[Scommstech]

Hi
One of you mentioned extreme low temperatures.
This is a stumbling block for me. I can only assume that the lower the temperature the slower the energy so possibly as of yet we cant detect it at its higher rate.
Any one any ideas on this.

[organic born]

Originally Posted by r6r6r

Humans design technologies that detect wide range of EMRadiation frequencies, beyond what the the human body detects or is aware of, so humans are not limited in the ability to know of EMRadiational frequences beyond that of our five, nervous system senses.

Just because they "detect it" doesn't mean that they know what it is, how it's fully expressed or it's connection to everything else. We can only view with some accuracy the current frequencies that we currently inhabit. Our bodies and senses are designed for these frequencies and we can only roughly speculate as to what lay beyond. I'm speculating that we were born into these bodies to simply do that. To look around through our senses and to experience this range of tightly specific frequencies in such a way that would be otherwise difficult.

By necessity we can only view a very thin slice of what's expressed via this current format. All of these frequencies, both higher and lower, exists just fine without us. Nothing else out there needs for us to be here in order to exist in a cogent and functional way... So at best we're observers and at worse an intrusion.

If we're wanting to "experience" these many other frequencies then we need to inhabit a vehicle for doing so. Simply reflecting on such things won't cut it, and isolating and labeling them with words does nothing to reveal the living properties of that which isn't physically possible for us to align with.

A machine is not a living interpreter. It's been calibrated to reflect what we currently think we know. They immit numbers that we collate based on the current logic of the day. They appease our mentalist framework.

Originally Posted by r6r6r

How do you know that I have not had this alledged "out of body" experience, but dont perceive or identify that experience as you do.

That's easy. I know that you haven't (in a way that you've remembered) because you speak in stubborn absolutes. You say I'm vague and I say that your vision is obscured by just such specifics. What I'm seeing doesn't lend itself to the logic you covet because to define any one part would require it all to be defined.. and with the inclusion of the consciousness that underpins it all. It's like we're all fishes and a few of us bobbed to the surface and saw an airplane flyby overhead. How does one return to the rest of the school and try and explain that with any specificity?

Look at how much study goes into any particular subject that's being explored by we humans. Some people spend their entire lifetimes invested in one simple aspect of this research. The information is condensed into a specific line of reasoning and folks like yourself adapt to such and then repeat it with some zeal as though it's intimately your own. Wouldn't similar be needed for me then to repeat back to you what the out-of-body researches discovered, and which bolsters both my experience and assumptions? Spoiler alert, such research doen't currently exist.

We only just discovered what bacteria does in the gut, both it's uses and risks based on differing strains. Such bacteria has been playing it's role in this way since the beginning of our species, and without our knowing about it. Nature does not need for us to know what we are and as to how we innately work. So we are Not born with that knowing in relation to psychical necessity, it's even less important, in terms of survival, that we're specifically acquainted with what lies beyond.

So if I "tried" to explain such experiences I'd be lying to you.. so to "begin" would be the opening of that lie.

Besides, it's not logic that drives what I'm seeing, it's experience. We're needing to participate in order to align with the rhythms that drives all creation. The best we can hope for is for me to say "airplane", which you'll sharply return with the word "coral". :)

[r6r6]

organic born---Just because they "detect it" doesn't mean that they know what it is, how it's fully expressed or it's connection to everything else.

Much more is known than specifics of EMRadiaiton an other fermions and bosons thatn anything you attempt to offer.

We can only view with some accuracy the current frequencies that we currently inhabit.

Scientist are observing much more, much more accurately, much more specifically in many frequencies than catagories than you have to offer.

OgB, you basically have nothing to offer other than a phrase "out of body" experience you had.

By necessity we can only view a very thin slice of what's expressed via this current format. All of these frequencies, both higher and lower, exists just fine without us.

Again, I have no idea what frequencies of what exactly your talking about and I dont think you have any further information of any significance.

To keep repeating an "out of body" experience is just a phrase. No specifics of any substance.

A machine is not a living interpreter. It's been calibrated to reflect what we currently think we know. They immit numbers that we collate based on the current logic of the day. They appease our mentalist framework.

Machines detect more frequencies of more fermions and bosons than any human every will. Your "out of body" experience is cute phrase but has no real substance for us.

That's easy. I know that you haven't (in a way that you've remembered) because you speak in stubborn absolutes.

Absolute truths are fact of truth irrespective of any significance the words that you want to add in front or after those absolute truths. SO basically addition of the word "stubborness" is basically irrelevant and meaningless in its use.

So if I "tried" to explain such experiences I'd be lying to you.. so to "begin" would be the opening of that lie.

You have lot of words that go no where or offer any specifics that are of any significance understanding what specifically you think your "put of body" was or how it is significant in any way.

Lot of word with no significant or relevant information is just alot of beat around "out of body" bush of some experience you had once.

Besides, it's not logic that drives what I'm seeing, it's experience. We're needing to participate in order to align with the rhythms that drives all creation. The best we can hope for is for me to say "airplane", which you'll sharply return with the word "coral". :)

Sharing what you think is sifniricant in a rational, logical common sense way that many humans can grasp is critical to having anything of significance to say.

I just havent seen you offer anything of significance regarding your "out of body" experience.

It is just a meaningless phrase until you can be more specific of what exactly it is. You have not done that.

ebuc

[organic born]

Originally Posted by r6r6r

You have lot of words that go no where or offer any specifics that are of any significance understanding what specifically you think your "put of body" was or how it is significant in any way.

Lot of word with no significant or relevant information is just alot of beat around "out of body" bush of some experience you had once.

I've actually had several OBE's, enough so to get a raw sense of it's validity and it's unique means as to viewing our current context. I've also been lucid and semi-lucid dreaming since my early teens and have had numerous precognitive dreams that unfolded as envisioned while asleep... among many other things that are less relevant to what your concerns are.

If you're wanting a taste as to how difficult this is to explain read Frank DeMarco's book "Rita's World; A View from the Non-Physical". I've read untold number of channeled material and this one comes the closest to what it is that I've been exposed to.

I'm not going to be able to give you the specifics that you want because you're not having the experiences that I now take for normal. You're mostly focused on what things "look" like from the perspective of a lifetime of assumptions. While I'm being exposed to a much different paradigm, one that illuminates the interconnectiveness of all things, in a tactile and intimately real-time way.

So what do you think happens when someone dies. Are they then shoved into a science class so they'll then know what you do? Do you really feel that your mechanical observations is the dominate language that our friends in the Non-physical are completely obsessed with? Your observations are an adjunct. They are a part of the picture, much the way that a bumper is part of a car. It's an interesting and serviceable component but it's not the whole car itself.

As to my personal interest, which have been driven by these experiences, are considerably more down to earth.

I'm currently reading the following:

The Knowledge Illusion; Why we never think alone by Steven Sloman and Philip Fernbach.
It's a book on the latest science of what is now being studied about the differences between what we-think-we-know as individuals and what we actually do.

Wild Nights: How Taming Sleep Created our Restless World by Benjamin Reiss.
It's a scientific and personal discussion as to how our sleeping patterns have changed over the last hundred years and how they daily affect our current life experience.. comparing today to how we were naturally evolved.

Mindlessness; The Corruption of Mindfulness in a Culture of Narcissism by Thomas Joiner. The title speaks for itself

And this one I mentioned earlier, Mating in Captivity; Reconciling the Erotic and the Domestic by Esther Perel. This is an amazing book by a 30 year couples therapist as to some to the deeper going-ons within relationships.

With numerous other books along a similar vein, and others that vary wildly. I enjoy reading "functional" insights in relation to observable and conscious living, and in direct relation to our current assumptive habits. These are each functional overviews, zeroing-in and out among reverent habits, exploring specifics in relation to the whole.

If I were to adapt to your manor of thinking I would be isolating myself to a tight pod of definitions that are relative to only those who study such things. I'm a creature who likes to go anywhere and do whatever at any time. I find it helpful and more fluidly satisfying if my interests coincide with such interactive flexibility. I prefer to be grounded in a different way than you do.

And yet I reiterate what I mentioned in my original post to you in this thread, what you're doing is important at the level that you're exploring. We are currently physically based so it's time well-spent studying the nuts and bolts of such things as it appears to us from this physical perspective. I simply would suffocate were I to do so myself. There's plenty of things that I do in the "real world" that I"m sure I could smoke-you-on in terms of physically creating, as you could with me, we each tend to specialize among things that generally suit our fancy. :)

[Scommstech]

Interesting interchange but how does it relate to the original thread topic.
By the way what has an OBE to do with spiritual proofs.