In depth discussion on breath meditation

[Gem]

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

...and then, Pranayama seems to be a different matter entirely.

Yes, that's a different thing entirely.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Mr Interesting

I use the breathe thing every so often but usually if something is on my mind and is quite stubborn about staying on it, taurus you see, but mostly, maybe because I've been meditating for decades, I just stop thinking and let the consciousness of me wander where it will... noises, body feelings etc. My favourite though is just disappearing, I love that. It's mostly, as it were, the self just simply disappearing... then the 'I' comes back, quite slowly, sometimes and I kinda wonder who I am, then where I am and finally what time it happens to be.

It's an excellent point Mr Interesting, and It's good to see you again after so long.

There is a reason I stick to talking on breath meditation as it provides a common context for the conversation, without which everyone would talk about prana and visualisation and mantra, and my word, the list goes on. That would become a real hodge podge of spiritual stuff which may be fun, but entirely fruitless, while being kinda fruity as well, teehee.

I think a common misconception about the breath meditation is the notion that the mind isn't suppose to go a-wandering, and you s'posed to focus on breath. I say look at it as it is, you determine to watch breathing, then mind wanders off, then you remember, return to breath and around and around that goes. It is that way, not some other way. Period. It's not supposed to be anything...

People will notice that being aware of their breath starts to make the mind slow down, but this more like 'you' coming to a stop (which you alluded to), which is where it starts to be no avoidance, no pursuit, just this breath as it is in the way it feels right now. The discussion basically is about what comes up after that.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by A human Being

That's the benefit of practice, after a while it comes naturally :)

This is a good thread, and a timely one for me because I've been practicing breath meditation just recently.

excellent, because the conversation won't make sense to anyone who doesn't practice, and I suggest when participating in the thread, also notice what breathing feels.

I've tried it before but I found simply observing the breath quite difficult, I found letting go of control and simply allowing myself to breathe to be easier said than done, and usually ended up generating more tension, not less.

Excellent point, though the point implies there is supposed to be less tension, which doesn't surprise me, because meditation is sold as some sort of comfortable thing, but this particular meditation is a healing process, so we can fully expect to become aware of tensions arising within us. It's good that these are revealed to us, and this is about finding out what's true about oneself, which will more probably be an arduous and difficult that pleasing and easy. .

What I've found helpful is to focus on releasing resistance immediately prior to the in-breath, because I would feel a contraction at that point which would result in me straining to breathe if I didn't release it; conversely, if I release the contraction the breath comes freely and naturally. Though I don't know if this falls more into the category of breath control rather than observing the breath, but either way I've found it very useful in dissolving energetic blockages.

Great point again, and it sounds to me like you are sensitive to resistance as it rises in the psyche.

The difference between controlling breath and natural breath is peculiar, because the breath is 'just happening' when we are not thinking about it, but we can control our breathing rate and depth if we want, so the question of whether I am breathing breath or breath is just happening to me, isn't cut and dried. I guess either is true, depending on which perspective it is considered from.

How I understand your post is, and I might misunderstand it, but I interpret it as saying you notice how mental resistance manifests in the irregularity of the breathing, and when you cease that resistance of mind, the breath also regulates. I think the important point here is that you cease resisting rather than start doing something about resistance. The breath meditation is a cessation rather than an activity in this way.

Nice post Human Being, love the personal touch!

[Navigator]

The breath is, indeed, a gateway. No need to add anything to it. There's no need to verbalize, conceptualize or do any mental process at all. Just observation. See what happens.

[In Flux]

Originally Posted by Navigator

The breath is, indeed, a gateway. No need to add anything to it. There's no need to verbalize, conceptualize or do any mental process at all. Just observation. See what happens.

As I understand it, you need a mental process (mindfulness) during meditation to bring the mind back from a day dream to the task of observing the breath. Once the mind becomes concentrated, it stays with the breath, and then there is less effort involved in guarding mindfulness.

[Navigator]

Originally Posted by In Flux

As I understand it, you need a mental process (mindfulness) during meditation to bring the mind back from a day dream to the task of observing the breath. Once the mind becomes concentrated, it stays with the breath, and then there is less effort involved in guarding mindfulness.

OK ... during the time of actual meditation you don't need a process. I suppose you're right in that if - and when - you drift into thoughts, a process is needed to bring you back.

[Gem]

It's a process of determining to feel oneself breathing, then the mind wanders off, then one remembers to feel themselves breathing, and around it goes. That's how it is and it isn't supposed to be any another way.

People say 'I tried it and I couldn't do it, it is hard, I can't hold my attention' etc. But of course a person can't do it when they want to make it other than it is - the meditation is about 'as it is' and has nothing at all to do with 'the way it is supposed to be'.

I suggest, ignore the popular discourse on breath because all that is 'what you're supposed to do, focus, concentrate, hold the attention and so on. Just watch the breath, notice how mind goes a wandering, see that you remember to watch breath, be aware of any resistance, angst, impatience, frustration, boredom that come up, and any self-narrative associated with such negativity. Allow it to cease, not by fighting it, trying to ignore it and so on, but by ceasing to give any importance to it, withdraw your investment in such things by merely seeing them as they are, and continue with the process of watching breath, wandering away and returning to breath again.

[A human Being]

Originally Posted by Gem

Excellent point, though the point implies there is supposed to be less tension, which doesn't surprise me, because meditation is sold as some sort of comfortable thing, but this particular meditation is a healing process, so we can fully expect to become aware of tensions arising within us. It's good that these are revealed to us, and this is about finding out what's true about oneself, which will more probably be an arduous and difficult that pleasing and easy.

Right, it's about what is as opposed to what you think it should be - observation, not manipulation. And if you notice that there's a desire to control your experience, in whatever way, you simply observe it. Allow what wants to arise to arise, without placing expectations on your experience; it likely isn't going to be a comfortable process, certainly not at first, but then, as you say, this meditation isn't about being comfortable, even if it might be sold as such.

Great point again, and it sounds to me like you are sensitive to resistance as it rises in the psyche.

The difference between controlling breath and natural breath is peculiar, because the breath is 'just happening' when we are not thinking about it, but we can control our breathing rate and depth if we want, so the question of whether I am breathing breath or breath is just happening to me, isn't cut and dried. I guess either is true, depending on which perspective it is considered from.

How I understand your post is, and I might misunderstand it, but I interpret it as saying you notice how mental resistance manifests in the irregularity of the breathing, and when you cease that resistance of mind, the breath also regulates. I think the important point here is that you cease resisting rather than start doing something about resistance. The breath meditation is a cessation rather than an activity in this way.

Nice post Human Being, love the personal touch!

Nicely put - 'don't resist the resistance', as they say. It's an excellent point, too, about how mental resistance manifests as irregularity of the breath, which of course affects the functioning of the body; it's interesting to observe how mind, breath, and body are interrelated.

When I first heard about breath meditation, I struggled to grasp its value and benefits, but now I've come to appreciate the simplicity of the breath, because of course the chattering mind tends to be all complexity. So I've come to think of the breath as an anchor that keeps your attention in the present moment, where the mind just wants to float away.

[In Flux]

Originally Posted by A human Being

Right, it's about what is as opposed to what you think it should be - observation, not manipulation. And if you notice that there's a desire to control your experience, in whatever way, you simply observe it.

So when you feel during the meditation that your mind is being pulled into a daydream, or into planning your shopping list, do you just let it go there, or do you manipulate your situation by focussing the mind on the breath again?

[baro-san]

Originally Posted by Gem

On the face of it it is simple: feel your breathing, and when you notice the mind wandered away, return attention to breath.

People tend to add things like controlled breath or counting breath, but there are good reasons not to employ the volition in these ways. Basically, breath meditation is based on 'seeing it as it is', and not 'making it as you want it to be'.

These are my opening statements. I hope to have a constructive discussion that benefits SF members.

3-4-or more lengthen breath cycles are widely used in inducing hypnosis.