The End of Suffering.

[Gem]

This follows my last thread 'The Problem of Human Suffering', which served quite well to delve into the very heart of what it is to suffer, how deep it goes and how truely gruesome (and even worse) it is.

We have to look into that, get to the very bottom of it, because the roots of it holding very fast and have done throughout all human history.

To change is to ask why don't we change? It has be asked most deeply of the self. You know that if you don't change suffering will continue just as it has before... it's that simple.

The world won't have peace until the individuals have peace... that means you and me... the peace of the world is the magnitude of your responsibility.

Imagine your young child going to war and being shot to bits, blinded, maimed... that is the price we are pay, and have always payed, and that is the future of an agitated world... and your own peace is the only solution to it.

Now the only question left is, do you care? Care enough to really change?

If this can make the feeling rize, the determination, the motivation... then be relentlessly dilligent so as to be a light unto yourself, and by being so, a light into the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALQHlFI992Y&feature=related

The only end to suffering, is to understand that suffering is inevitable. ITs choosing not to consiously cause suffering, which is what we have to learn

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Time

The only end to suffering, is to understand that suffering is inevitable. ITs choosing not to consiously cause suffering, which is what we have to learn

That's funny... The problem of it was pretty popular, but humans are drawn to drama.

No one really wants to change, changing friggin hurts, so people tend to chase the fantastical and the comfortable in preference to facing the underlying issues which agitate them, and what choice do people have... the ego must be preserved...

I don't expect that pain will end, earthquakes and infernos and tidal waves etc etc etc... but it is the 'who' that suffers.

Isn't it time to take a good look and this? Isn't it the only way?

Well natural disasters are a bit different then say, humans not helping eachother out, which causes suffering.

Of course when it comes down to it, suffering is suffering, but i see a big difference compared to a tornado wiping out a whole city, and a whoel continent of people starving due to people being greedy with money..

[Internal Queries]

ending all life ends all suffering. as long as there are nerve endings and brains with pain receptors there will be suffering.

i don't know what can be done about it except to hope for a nice big meteor.

Originally Posted by Gem

This follows my last thread 'The Problem of Human Suffering', which served quite well to delve into the very heart of what it is to suffer, how deep it goes and how truely gruesome (and even worse) it is.

We have to look into that, get to the very bottom of it, because the roots of it holding very fast and have done throughout all human history.

To change is to ask why don't we change? It has be asked most deeply of the self. You know that if you don't change suffering will continue just as it has before... it's that simple.

The world won't have peace until the individuals have peace... that means you and me... the peace of the world is the magnitude of your responsibility.

Imagine your young child going to war and being shot to bits, blinded, maimed... that is the price we are pay, and have always payed, and that is the future of an agitated world... and your own peace is the only solution to it.

Now the only question left is, do you care? Care enough to really change?

If this can make the feeling rize, the determination, the motivation... then be relentlessly dilligent so as to be a light unto yourself, and by being so, a light into the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALQHlFI992Y&feature=related

How does change happen.

How do you eat an elephant?

Answer: One bite at a time.

That's how change occurs. One bite at a time.

Gem-
I don't expect that pain will end, earthquakes and infernos and tidal waves etc etc etc... but it is the 'who' that suffers.

Isn't it time to take a good look and this? Isn't it the only way?

Yes. "who am I?" is The question.

Who suffers? Somebody suffers. If it is realized that there is nobody there- there is no suffering- as there is nobody there to suffer.

Pain is inevitable. But suffering must have somebody who is suffering.

I don't expect that pain will end, earthquakes and infernos and tidal waves etc etc etc... but it is the 'who' that suffers.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by Internal Queries

ending all life ends all suffering. as long as there are nerve endings and brains with pain receptors there will be suffering.

i don't know what can be done about it except to hope for a nice big meteor.

IQ- you are so colorful.

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Internal Queries

ending all life ends all suffering. as long as there are nerve endings and brains with pain receptors there will be suffering.

i don't know what can be done about it except to hope for a nice big meteor.

LOL...in the meantime, perhaps we can face up to some alternatives as Gem was saying ....he's right, it's high time and after all there is no time BUT the present.

After all, the meteor may still come but more of us may "die happy" that way

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Gem

To change is to ask why don't we change? It has be asked most deeply of the self. You know that if you don't change suffering will continue just as it has before... it's that simple.

The world won't have peace until the individuals have peace... that means you and me... the peace of the world is the magnitude of your responsibility.

Imagine your young child going to war and being shot to bits, blinded, maimed... that is the price we are pay, and have always payed, and that is the future of an agitated world... and your own peace is the only solution to it.

Now the only question left is, do you care? Care enough to really change?

If this can make the feeling rize, the determination, the motivation... then be relentlessly dilligent so as to be a light unto yourself, and by being so, a light into the world.

Originally Posted by Gem

I don't expect that pain will end, earthquakes and infernos and tidal waves etc etc etc... but it is the 'who' that suffers.

Isn't it time to take a good look and this? Isn't it the only way?

Yes. It is. We must examine ourselves. We must find the truth of who we are. How else can I know & stand for what I believe in unless I have been forged in the crucible of my own truth? There are many ways to do this...for me, I have been stripped down, deprived of ego crutches, & beaten relentlessly (at a soul level). In addition to seeking the truth on my own and in community.

So right now, I have a damn good idea who what & why I am here right now. And I couldn't have said this so clearly had I not experienced the trial-by-fire method of confronting the ego, in addition to the soul searching. This is what I learned. Flow like water and the sword doesn't cut. Always go to the Source, and always reach in and reach out. Find your center, know who you are, and then reach out in love and strength and in giving and sharing.

Anyone who tells me connection and exchange of love on all levels isn't possible, or means one is needy or weak, isn't saying something wrong for them. Just wrong for me. They're just in a different place, and for them, giving and sharing very likely would produce feelings of weakness & need.

If they haven't healed the self adequately, then they are wisely tending to that. You can only give what you have inside, and you have to be very strong and centred in yourself and in your Self before you can give and share and connect fully without losing yourself. And yet, when you are strong and centred in yourself, there is never even the slightest danger.

***

Having said all that, do I recommend my approach as the way forward for humanity to heal? No. Trial by fire is a sh*t way for most ppl to learn and no one should have to do it without having a "safe house" and some "life lines". As Gem noted, I'd prefer those I love not have to be shot, tortured, etc., either physically or emotionally. I'd prefer that all the world's children and ppl to know peace and love in our time.

I say this because for vast swathes of humanity, having suffered abuse, neglect, rape, or torture...disease or pain...war, starvation, and other deprivation...what is more pain going to "teach" them about compassion and trust? They already understand full well about independence & self-reliance...and unfortunately many darker more negative lessons as well.

If they are strong, then they have found God through their suffering...if not, they have found many hells. More pain and suffering teaches them nothing they haven't already seen and known already.

The only way to break through to higher levels for most of humanity is via connection...through love and compassion, through acceptance & forgiveness. Through one another. We must be there for ourselves and then for one another, to provide and to receive love and support. It is a two-way street, and we must rise to the occasion for ourselves & for one another. There is no other way forward into the light.

Peace & blessings,
7L