Vedanta and the Temple

[Shivani Devi]

I think we have finally worn Gem out. lol

I could also provide a link to book(s) and articles written by numerous past Gurus and teachers, like this one, which is very comprehensive on the topic of interest and will only take 10 minutes to read:

https://www.swami-krishnananda.org/disc/disc_145.html

With all due respect to the past masters, the saints and sages of yore, who have composed many tomes on Vedanta and the nature of Consciousness which an online search will reveal such to any seeker's delight.

Whatever I type here, on this forum is not copied from any book or online source. It is an amalgamation of many books and teachings on these issues, combined with a lived, practical experience over a lifetime.

I like to take my time to think about the subject matter, reach inside to find all that information buried within me which has been part of my upbringing and heritage and then spend an hour or so putting it together in essay form which I would find easiest and most comprehensive for the reader to understand.

It's easy to just drop a link, quote a paragraph or two and say 'here ya go, mate' but I guess I like doing things the hard way. lol

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

As you may or may not be aware, Buddha himself was born into the whole Hindu aristocracy and was a Brahmin in his own right.

Yes.

During the 14th century, the Vaishnava (Vishnu-loving) Hindus of the time, sought to unify both Hinduism and Buddhism under a common denominator, apart from the mere philosophy contained within each religion, to appeal to the illiterate and uneducated masses...and thus, Buddha sorta 'became' an incarnation/avatar of Lord Vishnu.

Yes, I was taught that on retreat as well.

That being said, Buddhism is also a Vedic and a Dharmic religion, as per Hinduism with the only differences being, of course, that Buddhists don't believe in the concept of "Ishwara" (God) or "Atman" (Soul) and pretty much had to laugh at all the 'God-loving' Vaishnavites who sought to place Buddha under the auspices OF a Deity.

Quite, although the Buddhist teaching on anatta is similar in process to the one you have described - especially in the sense that anatta doesn't provide an answer.

Apart from the Vedas during that time, there were also the Agamas - a theistic philosophy which basically governed everything from temple design, ritualistic worship, sacred geometry, right conduct for living...so on and so forth. The Agamas formed the very basis of Tantra in essence and this form of Buddhism incorporating the Agamas and Tantras are still seen in the Vajrayana Traditions of Tibet and also on the Indonesian island of Bali who still kept to their Theistic roots.

Indeed there is a merging of cultural paradigms in that regard.

I had the beautiful experience of spending a lot of my childhood in Bali, where the lines between Agama Hindu Dharma and Vajrayana Buddhism became almost interchangeable and blurred...I worshiped Shiva as Mahakala, which is a deity common to both religions!

Wonderful. I am also a third culture kid raised in Papua New Guinea, which is an ancient, magical place of diverse cultures. In my Jungle forays I sat with elders, worked alongside chieftans, and received a precursory education in the jungle lore... etc. Sure broadens the perspective growing up within two concurrent cultures. Little wonder we don't 'fit in' ay.

As Buddhism became refined after the 12th Century AD, all notions of "God" was replaced by "Sunyata" (emptiness) and all notions of "Soul" was replaced by "Buddha-Nature" to denote the importance of looking within as opposed to looking without for salvation or Nirvana (Nibbana).

Yes, there is no denial of Buddha Nature/Nibbana.

Thus, the Pali Canon was officially canonised as being apart from the Devanagari (Sanskrit) teachings, the Hinayana gave way to the Mahayana through the Tripitaka (three baskets of sacred teachings) carried from China to Tibet along the Silk Road trading route...and modern Buddhism was born and Tantra became filtered down with regards to historical reference and significance.

...and as I result, I now have this playing through my head:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-SUoHmpRdM

Oh the memories...lol

Excellent.

[Gem]

I appreciate the imput, guys. I'll peruse the links later on and no doubt be inspired to comment afterward.

[sentient]

Originally Posted by Gem

I am also a third culture kid raised in Papua New Guinea, which is an ancient, magical place of diverse cultures. In my Jungle forays I sat with elders, worked alongside chieftans, and received a precursory education in the jungle lore... etc. Sure broadens the perspective growing up within two concurrent cultures. Little wonder we don't 'fit in' ay.

Sorry, off topic a bit here, but howww interesting! (since I do know a tiny little bit about PNG myself. Not because I have been there, which I haven’t, but because of some PNG’s I have known).

And sorry to go on a kindergarten level here again: (Wikipedia)

Papua New Guinea is one of the most culturally diverse countries in the world. There are 852 known languages in the country, of which 12 now have no known living speakers.[10] Most of the population of more than 7 million people live in customary communities, which are as diverse as the languages.[11] It is also one of the most rural, as only 18 percent of its people live in urban centres. etc. etc.etc.

^ That is the data map of the place, but not the territory (though it doesn’t mean that the map and the perceived territory irl could not be a match).

It just frustrates me to no end, when people think they can know something about PNG just by accumulating data knowledge, and then even make judgement calls based on the mere map.

Imo. to say that one knows anything at all about PNG, the “territory” of it - it is absolutely essential for one to travel there or at least meet some Papuans irl.
PNG is so immensely diverse that the mentality and the outlook of each Papuan you meet is so very different that they might just as well have come from entirely different countries (here the map & perceived territory without the projected map = match so far).

Another match (map has described as a common denominator) is what one can experience/witness with most Papuans one meets, even with the most highly educated, Christianised and westernized persons:
“It is a country ruled and fuelled and subconsciously governed by the belief in magic.”

“Papua New Guineans believe in the spiritual, supernatural, or non-empirical realm. Some would call it a magical worldview.”

This is what is so awesome and fascinating about PNG, but now when the traditional social structures and the country’s infrastructure is breaking down – PNG seems to be a humanity in crises.
I do hope PNG gets its act together and moves on with much of its “magical worldview” intact.

Westerners in turn seem to have a (superstitious) fear barrier about perceiving the territory without the map, which is a kind of “mind protection/sorcery” in itself, because the projected map (arrogant, assumed superior overlay upon the territory) does filter out extrasensory input and prevents one from partaking in the magic.

And if one doesn't partake in the Magic - one will never know PNG.

PNG = Magic.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Jyotir

Hi Gem,

Pursuant to your interest, offering here selections from this (imo excellent) resource.
There are a number of references to Vedanta in this particular text, available here as Vol. 21-22

Recommend opening the PDF file and do an advanced search (in ‘edit’ menu), for the term “Vedanta”, which will bring up all instances within captured sentences with page #'s, linkable by clicking on them. A very quick way to review.

Examples:

Hope this is helpful.

~ J

That is beautifully written piece of work. I only scanned over it, but if I were inclined to reading in general, I would go over this word for word as I'm sure it's the sort of work that just keeps revealing. Alas, to read isn't my forte, but I extracted this little tit bit which I thought quite striking

"But where all is self-determined
by truth of consciousness and truth of being, there can be no
standard, no struggle to observe it, no virtue or merit, no sin or
demerit of the nature. The power of love, of truth, of right will
be there, not as a law mentally constructed but as the very substance
and constitution of the nature"

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

I think we have finally worn Gem out. lol

I could also provide a link to book(s) and articles written by numerous past Gurus and teachers, like this one, which is very comprehensive on the topic of interest and will only take 10 minutes to read:

https://www.swami-krishnananda.org/disc/disc_145.html

With all due respect to the past masters, the saints and sages of yore, who have composed many tomes on Vedanta and the nature of Consciousness which an online search will reveal such to any seeker's delight.

Whatever I type here, on this forum is not copied from any book or online source. It is an amalgamation of many books and teachings on these issues, combined with a lived, practical experience over a lifetime.

I like to take my time to think about the subject matter, reach inside to find all that information buried within me which has been part of my upbringing and heritage and then spend an hour or so putting it together in essay form which I would find easiest and most comprehensive for the reader to understand.

It's easy to just drop a link, quote a paragraph or two and say 'here ya go, mate' but I guess I like doing things the hard way. lol

In knowing what to say it may come as necessary, and the article was good to read. I noticed similarities between this discourse on individual rebirth and the essence of desire and the Buddhist narrative on the santana and rebirth processes.

It is refreshing, because when I make mention of these sorts of things, I am often chided by 'the experts', and then I read this passage which reiterates it, but from a Hindu orientation.