Is it possible to not have an ego?

[shivatar]

Originally Posted by youngnostic

the reason why I ask is because I don't have anything in me that I can identify as an 'ego' which leads me to question: what if I don't have an ego?
Now I know what you might be thinking: I've got blindspots but still have an ego.
But check this: I've been on an introspective spiritual contemplative path of working out my own psychology for the past 14 years. And there have been times, in fact for the majority of that time span, where I was convinced I had an ego and it was blocking me from having fulfilled relationships. I've spent years trying to annihilate my so-called ego and have even gotten to the point where I believed I've succeeded at freeing both my brain's hemispheres of the so-called 'ego' film that leads me to act selfishly or judge the outside phenomena instead of simply witnessing it.
I didn't know where else to go with this question, but as it stands, I currently do not see an 'ego' in me. I've studied neo-advaita which says we have to drop the notion of a personal self or an I and I understood what they were trying to say, that is, I realized my self was an illusion. I've even prior that understood that the word I does not mean self and it felt like my 'I' died. So I've gone through the motions, perhaps excessively to get to the bottom of this ego thing where I did everything I could to make sure I'm not responsible for treating others ****tily and it's not because I have some kind of 'ego' that is my achilles heel. I've gone through the motions of trying to understand self and what I is and realized that after understanding that the 'self' is an illusion that I just have to live and see what unfolds next and what unfolded was the inability to discern a personal 'ego' where I literally walk down the street or have a cigarette and try to think to myself: what is this 'ego' that everyone is talking about and how is it found in me, and realize that I cannot pin point an ego.
Not much is different because we're a product of our environment but I've studied different teachings that all related to the ego and none of them describe me when they describe their epic ego mindsets. I don't fall any category of having an 'ego' based on the various teachings I've encountered. So please enlighten me on why it's not possible to not have an 'ego' and what characteristics this ego has so that I can tell you if I find them in me...
I know at this point it sounds like I'm trying to boast and say that I'm some how better than someone else. But that's the whole thing: I'm not. The ego never existed. So if you're like me a couple of years ago trying to understand the personal pronoun "I" or battling some invisible 'ego' try to picture yourself in my position: This imaginary 'ego' never existed.

You are an ego bro.

It doesn't matter if you can't identify what you identify as, if you identify at all (unconsciously too) then you still have an ego. Actually I'm saying it wrong, you don't have an ego, you are an ego. That which identifies is the ego, that which is trying to be identified is the self. there is no self, therefore whatever the ego is must be false.

And it's not like there is truly no self, there is a self. however the true answer is so much more complex and amazing than that. The self is everything, and it is also every thing. Because it is everything and every single thing, it is nothing and everything at the same time.

The eye cannot see itself. Not without a mirror. The ego cannot see itself, not without the help of other people.

You can try to annihilate your ego if you want, many do. I personally have walked away from that path because it's just not my vibe.

To summarize, you are the ego. The ego is an attempt to identify that which cannot be identified. Therefore whatever the ego is, is not a true thing, but a "best guess" kind of thing. It may be fairly accurate, enough to convince us of something, but is it true in the ultimate sense of the word. No. It lacks the... whatever it is.. it lacks infinity. It is a finite thing. The self is infinite, the ego is finite.

That being said, they are distinctions but they are the same thing. The top of an iceberg has a name... idk what the name is lol, but it has a name. The bottom half an iceberg also has a name. The iceberg is one thing though. Similarly, the self and the ego are one thing. Everything in the universe, and every single thing, are both the same thing, despite being or seeming like complementary things.

[shivatar]

I meant to say the self is no-thing, not nothing. it is not a thing, it is everything and therefore no single thing. Everything includes all single things, therefore the self is also a thing, but also more than just one thing. that which identifies as a single thing is the ego.

also, trying to accomplish the transcendence of the ego through mental pursuits or intellectual understanding is only part of the journey. The body and nervous system must also be strengthened to be able to sustain the experience of the true self. The experience of the true self is the experience of liberation from the ego. One who understands mentally is transcendent, as we are, but not liberated. We are both transcendent yet not liberated. When we have strengthened our body to the point it needs to be then we will be liberated.

I have understood for a long time what I am, yet I fail to experience it because I am lazy. I don't put in the effort to strengthen my nervous system through dedicated meditation and other practices. in my mind I know and understand, but in my being I don't experience it. the experience eludes me for the most part, it comes through in brief windows, like now, however the sustained experience, the permanent enlightenment, will elude me until i truly put my entire being into the pursuit. Also, its not like it's an effort, it will come effortlessly once I have cleared what i have burdened myself with. It comes with surrender, I have experienced it through surrender before, so I know that gate is open to me. However the gate I am working on now is the gate of effort. First comes effort, then surrender. for whatever reason (pain probably) I experienced surrender without effort first, now I must experience effort before surrender.

In other words, a person can become transcendent through reading spiritual scriptures and never having a dedicated practice. One can be liberated through a dedicated practice but fail to be transcendent because they decline the mental inquiry part. it's not like liberation comes after transcendence or vice versa. some are transcendent, some are liberated, very few are transcendent and liberated.

In my opinion and to the best of my knowledge, transcendence usually comes through mental effort and inquiry. Reading and study and practice. liberation usually comes through a dedicated spiritual discipline like prayer, mantra, meditation, conscious journaling in the present moment/flow state, etc. In my opinion liberation is more of a physical thing than anything else, and it comes from a strong nervous system not strong muscles. yoga, meditation, tai chi, these are all things that strengthen the nervous system. When the body is strong enough liberation just happens (might be a simplification, but it basically just happens after the effort has been put in. like winning the lottery, it just happens, but you have to buy the ticket first (meditation/spiritual practice = buying a ticket. the more tickets you buy, the better your odds). For transcendence though, its like threading a needle. a very specific thing must happen, a series of experiences, an experience, an understanding, etc.

for both pursuits, effort must be put in up until a certain point, after that point no effort must be put in for it to happen. it just happens when the time is right. effort up until a point, then the pursuit is dropped and surrender/letting it happen is required.

Right now I am in the process of clearing what i have burdened myself with. In 5-7 years if I put in massive effort I have the potential to experience permanent enlightenment. It might come at 35, might come at 42 (im 27 now. both 35 and 42 are just guesses I have for myself, I might not reach permanent enlightenment at all in this life. highly unlikely though). Either way it will come when it comes.

[uloDoe Youn]

Are You willin to lose let go of your ego?
Cuz if you say what you know, and what you think of to be checked out, then ego has already deprived you of itself into its zone without wherein to .knowing it. Itz a simple fact of math when you say I or you, you speak Ego of itssElf. So if you think you have no.. then you should reconsider What it Is Using You Of.,, tHere is Another step in gEtTiNg out BUt It Requires DEtermination, TRue that.. when you say You;~> You will Not, unless Ego Comes Through.
In other words, if you have to conform to persuade others into your realm. Ego becomes yoU.
Give it another though Another Rendition, and see the true True. A Life Without Ego, Can not Be YOu
Test Yourselves, Test You. See IF love comes through or the ego that is in you.
One Love, one HOPE

MArtin UlodOe .

[Raziel]

Originally Posted by uloDoe Youn

Are You willin to lose let go of your ego?
Cuz if you say what you know, and what you think of to be checked out, then ego has already deprived you of itself into its zone without wherein to .knowing it. Itz a simple fact of math when you say I or you, you speak Ego of itssElf. So if you think you have no.. then you should reconsider What it Is Using You Of.,, tHere is Another step in gEtTiNg out BUt It Requires DEtermination, TRue that.. when you say You;~> You will Not, unless Ego Comes Through.
In other words, if you have to conform to persuade others into your realm. Ego becomes yoU.
Give it another though Another Rendition, and see the true True. A Life Without Ego, Can not Be YOu
Test Yourselves, Test You. See IF love comes through or the ego that is in you.
One Love, one HOPE

MArtin UlodOe .

There is no other way to address a person unless constantly using their name without the word YOU.

In conversation - without the use of the word (I) the other people interpret statements as blanket statements - often becoming offend.

Without being in conversation with another (I) is not a context I use. In the thoughts that I have in my mind there is no need to state you or I as I'm going to understand who is being referred to automatically.

[uloDoe Youn]

Originally Posted by Raziel

There is no other way to address a person unless constantly using their name without the word YOU.

In conversation - without the use of the word (I) the other people interpret statements as blanket statements - often becoming offend.

Without being in conversation with another (I) is not a context I use. In the thoughts that I have in my mind there is no need to state you or I as I'm going to understand who is being referred to automatically.

OK Raziel, the point making was that contrary to what younggnostic had had stated was, That he used the I and he ie.(me) as an ego statement in itself when he wrote the original thread, thereby going at totally against what he just had Stated, So go read it, and come back and drop another comment if you make it In TIME

[Raziel]

Originally Posted by uloDoe Youn

OK Raziel, the point making was that contrary to what younggnostic had had stated was, That he used the I and he ie.(me) as an ego statement in itself when he wrote the original thread, thereby going at totally against what he just had Stated, So go read it, and come back and drop another comment if you make it In TIME

I posted at the beginning of this thread (i.e before you) & have read every response since.


My point is that, just like myself youngnostic is capable of making me/I/you statements without ego since communication between western posters essentially dictates the use of those terms.

If you read from the beginning my original response contains further clarification.

Oh look, use of those exact words in order to explain separate action again.

Using the term one for example I.e "one must first" still describes an individual body even if that body is " freed from entangled roots," or has "escaped from the woven web" spiritually.

[Rain95]

Is it possible to not have an ego?

I'd liken the ego to dust on a mirror. Billions of particles of dust. But then the dust is not the ego. The dust is a product of thought, of experience, of conditioning, habit, and memory. The dust's only power is it entices the mirror to identify with it in varying degrees. Ego is a creation of the mirror. It is created through the identification with the dust. Though the identification with the products of the body and it's brain, conceptual thought and memory.

So we don't have an ego, we create an ego. So to me the question would be, is it possible to not create an ego? Or to not identify with the thought based conceptual self and all of it's content?

One ignored reality in all of this is the journey from birth to adulthood humans go through. This cultural and societal and communal programming starts when we are born and continues long after. In fact, the whole structure of our social life is built around this programming to identify with our memory and experience and body and thoughts and all the rest. Everybody out there treats us as if we are the body and it's memory based mind. We do the same to others.

Also, in my metaphor, I said billions of particles of dust. So it's unreasonable to expect to become aware of, and stop identifying with such a huge number. What one can do is learn to be free here and there, to wipe away some of the dust, but no human can be free from all of it.

Another overlooked fact, at least in my belief system, is consciousness merges with the brain around birth and stays that way until the body stops working. So really we are never outside of it all. We exist, our conscious energy, within the nerves and neurons of the brain itself. So it is always a part of us until we leave the body. It will always be there, however, the more aware we are of it, the more we don't identify with it as self, the freer we become.

We can't get rid of the ego, but we can stop identifying with it as much as we are able.

[God-Like]

It's possible for there to be no ego but not for 'I' ..


x daz x

[Starlight]

Originally Posted by youngnostic

the reason why I ask is because I don't have anything in me that I can identify as an 'ego' which leads me to question: what if I don't have an ego?
Now I know what you might be thinking: I've got blindspots but still have an ego.
But check this: I've been on an introspective spiritual contemplative path of working out my own psychology for the past 14 years. And there have been times, in fact for the majority of that time span, where I was convinced I had an ego and it was blocking me from having fulfilled relationships. I've spent years trying to annihilate my so-called ego and have even gotten to the point where I believed I've succeeded at freeing both my brain's hemispheres of the so-called 'ego' film that leads me to act selfishly or judge the outside phenomena instead of simply witnessing it.
I didn't know where else to go with this question, but as it stands, I currently do not see an 'ego' in me. I've studied neo-advaita which says we have to drop the notion of a personal self or an I and I understood what they were trying to say, that is, I realized my self was an illusion. I've even prior that understood that the word I does not mean self and it felt like my 'I' died. So I've gone through the motions, perhaps excessively to get to the bottom of this ego thing where I did everything I could to make sure I'm not responsible for treating others ****tily and it's not because I have some kind of 'ego' that is my achilles heel. I've gone through the motions of trying to understand self and what I is and realized that after understanding that the 'self' is an illusion that I just have to live and see what unfolds next and what unfolded was the inability to discern a personal 'ego' where I literally walk down the street or have a cigarette and try to think to myself: what is this 'ego' that everyone is talking about and how is it found in me, and realize that I cannot pin point an ego.
Not much is different because we're a product of our environment but I've studied different teachings that all related to the ego and none of them describe me when they describe their epic ego mindsets. I don't fall any category of having an 'ego' based on the various teachings I've encountered. So please enlighten me on why it's not possible to not have an 'ego' and what characteristics this ego has so that I can tell you if I find them in me...
I know at this point it sounds like I'm trying to boast and say that I'm some how better than someone else. But that's the whole thing: I'm not. The ego never existed. So if you're like me a couple of years ago trying to understand the personal pronoun "I" or battling some invisible 'ego' try to picture yourself in my position: This imaginary 'ego' never existed.

I think you would enjoy reading and studying Ramana Maharshi as I have. Read his book "Who am I"

[tommylama]

Originally Posted by youngnostic

the reason why I ask is because I don't have anything in me that I can identify as an 'ego' which leads me to question: what if I don't have an ego?
Now I know what you might be thinking: I've got blindspots but still have an ego.
But check this: I've been on an introspective spiritual contemplative path of working out my own psychology for the past 14 years. And there have been times, in fact for the majority of that time span, where I was convinced I had an ego and it was blocking me from having fulfilled relationships. I've spent years trying to annihilate my so-called ego and have even gotten to the point where I believed I've succeeded at freeing both my brain's hemispheres of the so-called 'ego' film that leads me to act selfishly or judge the outside phenomena instead of simply witnessing it.
I didn't know where else to go with this question, but as it stands, I currently do not see an 'ego' in me. I've studied neo-advaita which says we have to drop the notion of a personal self or an I and I understood what they were trying to say, that is, I realized my self was an illusion. I've even prior that understood that the word I does not mean self and it felt like my 'I' died. So I've gone through the motions, perhaps excessively to get to the bottom of this ego thing where I did everything I could to make sure I'm not responsible for treating others ****tily and it's not because I have some kind of 'ego' that is my achilles heel. I've gone through the motions of trying to understand self and what I is and realized that after understanding that the 'self' is an illusion that I just have to live and see what unfolds next and what unfolded was the inability to discern a personal 'ego' where I literally walk down the street or have a cigarette and try to think to myself: what is this 'ego' that everyone is talking about and how is it found in me, and realize that I cannot pin point an ego.
Not much is different because we're a product of our environment but I've studied different teachings that all related to the ego and none of them describe me when they describe their epic ego mindsets. I don't fall any category of having an 'ego' based on the various teachings I've encountered. So please enlighten me on why it's not possible to not have an 'ego' and what characteristics this ego has so that I can tell you if I find them in me...
I know at this point it sounds like I'm trying to boast and say that I'm some how better than someone else. But that's the whole thing: I'm not. The ego never existed. So if you're like me a couple of years ago trying to understand the personal pronoun "I" or battling some invisible 'ego' try to picture yourself in my position: This imaginary 'ego' never existed.

We either identify with our self or ego, or we identify with our not-self, which is everyone else. If you love everyone equally as if they were your very self, then congratulations, you have eliminated your ego! If you are never irritated in any way, shape or form by the antics of those around you, then congratulations, you have eliminated your ego. If you treat your body as if it were a sacred vessel and never contaminate it with unhealthy substances, then congratulations, you have eliminated your ego! I'm guessing you haven't eliminated your ego...but if you have, congratulations!