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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #1  
Old 25-03-2017, 11:33 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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"There is no-one" as the ultimate defence

Mind which has constructed a character (ego) in the attempt to deal with conditioning which implants the idea that the organism is no good, may select (resonate with) the proposition "There is no-one" to solve that discomfort.

In this sense the proposition is the perfect defence as it asserts that the organism does not exist at all and absolves it of all responsibility.

This is not meant to denigrate this solution but to explore the mechanisms that might be involved in so called enlightenment.
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  #2  
Old 25-03-2017, 06:44 PM
Ground Ground is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
Mind which has constructed a character (ego) in the attempt to deal with conditioning which implants the idea that the organism is no good, may select (resonate with) the proposition "There is no-one" to solve that discomfort.
'ego' is the invention of psychoanalytics. Since I am not a follower of the view of psychoanalytics and can only refer to myself. I myself am not 'ego'.
So the relevant questions are:
What am I?
and
How do I appear to myself?
and
Is the way I appear to myself spontaneously and non-analytically consistent with other facts that I can (analytically) know about myself?

If the way I appear to myself spontaneously and non-analytically is inconsistent with facts I can (analytically) know about myself then from a rational perspective I actually do not exist the way I appear to myself spontaneously and non-analytically.

Since so far I have been what appeared to me as myself spontaneously and non-analytically I do not exist (as that I).

So what am I if I am not what I thought I was so far?

Now I could take your 'Mind which has constructed' but consciousness is the coordinator of perception of body and other phenomena, volition, feeling. So obviously 'I' am kind of reflection of consciousness, volition, feeling and body only but not that I that appeared to exist spontaneously and non-analytically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
In this sense the proposition is the perfect defence as it asserts that the organism does not exist at all and absolves it of all responsibility.
That is not correct. The question is: What is the relation between the appearance of me and 'the organism' which stands for 'the body'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
This is not meant to denigrate this solution but to explore the mechanisms that might be involved in so called enlightenment.
Although not being a buddhist I think the buddhist approach is far more convincing than yours
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  #3  
Old 27-03-2017, 09:43 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ground
'ego' is the invention of psychoanalytics. Since I am not a follower of the view of psychoanalytics and can only refer to myself. I myself am not 'ego'.
So the relevant questions are:
What am I?
and
How do I appear to myself?
and
Is the way I appear to myself spontaneously and non-analytically consistent with other facts that I can (analytically) know about myself?

If the way I appear to myself spontaneously and non-analytically is inconsistent with facts I can (analytically) know about myself then from a rational perspective I actually do not exist the way I appear to myself spontaneously and non-analytically.

Since so far I have been what appeared to me as myself spontaneously and non-analytically I do not exist (as that I).

So what am I if I am not what I thought I was so far?

Now I could take your 'Mind which has constructed' but consciousness is the coordinator of perception of body and other phenomena, volition, feeling. So obviously 'I' am kind of reflection of consciousness, volition, feeling and body only but not that I that appeared to exist spontaneously and non-analytically.


That is not correct. The question is: What is the relation between the appearance of me and 'the organism' which stands for 'the body'.


Although not being a buddhist I think the buddhist approach is far more convincing than yours

What is meant by ego is the character mind has created as a solution to the problem of rejection. If it doesn't mean that for you then for the purposes of consideration lets just call it the person or personality that constitutes the character. These terms are interchangeable for me so just choose the one you prefer and don't get too stuck on the differences.

What does your character actually feel like? Does it feel like a construction. Are you aware of it as defensive in any way? As something you present whilst 'you' are "behind" it somewhere. Lets leave it there for the moment in case we get to bogged down.
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  #4  
Old 28-03-2017, 07:28 AM
Ground Ground is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
What does your character actually feel like? Does it feel like a construction. Are you aware of it as defensive in any way? As something you present whilst 'you' are "behind" it somewhere. Lets leave it there for the moment in case we get to bogged down.

Let me briefly delineate a valid method to achieve direct experience of 'selflessness' or emptiness of oneself:

1. you have to indentify 'I, me, my, mine' how it appears.
2. you have to ascertain that the absence of inherent existence (= absence of truth) follows from the reason.
3. you have to establish the presence of the reason in 'I, me, my, mine'.

This is a valid meditative rational and analytical approach. It is an approach of a buddhist analytical philosophy. However when reasoning and logical thinking do not resonate with an individual then this approach may not be applicable for this individual.

So you see this may be the difference between our perspectives: you take the perspective of belief statements whereas I take the perspective of rationality and analysis.
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  #5  
Old 28-03-2017, 09:56 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ground
Let me briefly delineate a valid method to achieve direct experience of 'selflessness' or emptiness of oneself:

1. you have to indentify 'I, me, my, mine' how it appears.
2. you have to ascertain that the absence of inherent existence (= absence of truth) follows from the reason.
3. you have to establish the presence of the reason in 'I, me, my, mine'.

This is a valid meditative rational and analytical approach. It is an approach of a buddhist analytical philosophy. However when reasoning and logical thinking do not resonate with an individual then this approach may not be applicable for this individual.

So you see this may be the difference between our perspectives: you take the perspective of belief statements whereas I take the perspective of rationality and analysis.

That's clear and understood, thanks. Glad its working out for you:) You are clearly not concerned about information that may be hidden from you that may contradict/demolish you rational analysis (evidence). Hope that doesn't happen to you but not doubt you will carry out another rational analysis and find yet more evidence to overcome that demolition.....until the next time:)

Good luck
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  #6  
Old 28-03-2017, 02:06 PM
Ground Ground is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
That's clear and understood, thanks. Glad its working out for you:)
I am not the only one. It is an accepted method since many individuals succeded in validating it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
You are clearly not concerned about information that may be hidden from you that may contradict/demolish you rational analysis (evidence).
There isn't any. See ... once you experience emptiness of yourself based on rational analysis the same analysis applies to all other phenomena/objects. Why is this? It is because every single experience of emptiness reveals the nature of mind which is applicable to all phenomena/objects of mind since there are no phenomena/objects beyond mind.
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  #7  
Old 29-03-2017, 09:38 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ground
I am not the only one. It is an accepted method since many individuals succeded in validating it.


There isn't any. See ... once you experience emptiness of yourself based on rational analysis the same analysis applies to all other phenomena/objects. Why is this? It is because every single experience of emptiness reveals the nature of mind which is applicable to all phenomena/objects of mind since there are no phenomena/objects beyond mind.

Glad your so confident:) The passenger in Kierkegaards story was equally confident and swore on oath as no doubt you would...........but he was wrong.

But thats just a story.

Good luck
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  #8  
Old 29-03-2017, 04:35 PM
Ground Ground is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
Glad your so confident:)
I am speaking about my first hand experience not my belief ... but of course if you don't believe that I am speaking about my first hand experience then this is so
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  #9  
Old 30-03-2017, 10:08 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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So was the passenger in the coach:)
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  #10  
Old 30-03-2017, 10:18 AM
Ground Ground is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
So was the passenger in the coach:)
Pure Iamit, you're stuck.

Sometimes one may come across something which rings a bell. But that's a transient experience and tinnitus shouldn't be confused with it.
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