Self - open discussion

[Gem]

OK, I'm glad that's all cleared up then.

Originally Posted by hybrid

amazing isn't it. that is - the possibility that the vehicle of expressions is remotely controlled since this essential you is practically not localized in the body. perhaps the term telekinesis is more appropriate?

Rather than "remotely controlled", it is much more "intimately controlled".. everything you 'know' about 'you' is based on your intimate relationship with the vehicle you have integrated with, the body, yet.. you are not that body that you 'are'.. you, and the body, are unified as One, for the interval of that body's functional existence, and.. you, and the body are made of One 'stuff', Energy.. Except for this 'intimate relationship', you and the body, we have no venue for the thoughts and experiences and references, like "telekinesis" or "remotely controlled".. since both 'you' and the body are both made of the same Energy (stuff), there is a fundamental inherent relationship.. it's very interesting 'stuff'..

Be well..

Acceptance and Realism: Self-actualized people have realistic perceptions of themselves, others and the world around them.

Problem-centering: Self-actualized individuals are concerned with solving problems outside of themselves, including helping others and finding solutions to problems in the external world. These people are often motivated by a sense of personal responsibility and ethics.

Spontaneity: Self-actualized people are spontaneous in their internal thoughts and outward behavior. While they can conform to rules and social expectations, they also tend to be open and unconventional.

Autonomy and Solitude: Another characteristics of self-actualized people is the need for independence and privacy. While they enjoy the company of others, these individuals need time to focus on developing their own individual potential.

Continued Freshness of Appreciation: Self-actualized people tend to view the world with a continual sense of appreciation, wonder and awe. Even simple experiences continue to be a source of inspiration and pleasure.


Peak Experiences: Individuals who are self-actualized often have what Maslow termed peak experiences, or moments of intense joy, wonder, awe and ecstasy. After these experiences, people feel inspired, strengthened, renewed or transformed.

I got this from a site, i dont agree with spontenaity, i think a self acutalized person would have more, i dont wanna say control, but something like that over themselves when it comes to speaking thier minds

Originally Posted by andrew g

Well, in your mind you have given existence to an 'I' and a 'me'. When clearly there is only 'you', whether it is the 'I' or the 'me' (take your pick). 'You' are not the 'I' AND the 'me'.

Try not to get too caught up in the concept.

I refers to the immediate present.
Self refers to the moment of existence.
Two arbritary words that signify the same sensory feeling.

What your missed in the original sentence....Self is what I perciev/see me as in any given moment.....is the word 'percieve/see'. They are an essential part of sentence structure. In this case they link the words I & self in an action.

My original post to you was to say that I am human, and I don't believe in your proposition that 'humans have the belief that 'I exist''. I accept the view of self as a perception...and perception as a momentary view (a trick of the light)...not an existential belief.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by sound

What do others hold as true about the 'self'? There are many ideas, beliefs, understandings and perception surrounding 'self'. Some say it is a concept, others say it is true or false identity, there are those who claim it is non existent, others claim/perceive higher and lower selves. Heres to hoping we can have a friendly discussion amongst ourselves lol

Hi sound

Getting to know one's self (self realization) entails the Individual within mind to connect with the soul. The Individual will then In essence be their true self. The soul Is a slave to the mind.

Whereas In God realization the soul Is free of the mind at Is at One with what we are.

The mind Is now a slave to our soul.

x daz x

[andrew g]

Originally Posted by xxheatherxx

Try not to get too caught up in the concept.

I refers to the immediate present.
Self refers to the moment of existence.
Two arbritary words that signify the same sensory feeling.

What your missed in the original sentence....Self is what I perciev/see me as in any given moment.....is the word 'percieve/see'. They are an essential part of sentence structure. In this case they link the words I & self in an action.

My original post to you was to say that I am human, and I don't believe in your proposition that 'humans have the belief that 'I exist''. I accept the view of self as a perception...and perception as a momentary view (a trick of the light)...not an existential belief.

I didnt miss what you said at all. ''Self is what I perceive/see me as in any given moment.'' There is the 'I' and the 'me'....thats the conceptual split and the human experience reflects that conceptual split.

However, it seems that that wasnt what you were talking about initially anyway, it was what I said about humans believing that they exist. You wont find many humans that have released the belief that they exist. They would be humans that function in a very different way to most humans. They are humans that experience 'oneness' and not 'separation'. They are humans that have transcended self-awareness itself, because self-awareness is directly linked to the belief that 'I exist'.

I dont think I have got caught in the concept there as I think I have only mentioned the word in your quote, and where I said ''self-awareness''.

Originally Posted by andrew g

I didnt miss what you said at all. ''Self is what I perceive/see me as in any given moment.'' There is the 'I' and the 'me'....thats the conceptual split and the human experience reflects that conceptual split.

However, it seems that that wasnt what you were talking about initially anyway, it was what I said about humans believing that they exist. You wont find many humans that have released the belief that they exist. They would be humans that function in a very different way to most humans. They are humans that experience 'oneness' and not 'separation'. They are humans that have transcended self-awareness itself, because self-awareness is directly linked to the belief that 'I exist'.

I dont think I have got caught in the concept there as I think I have only mentioned the word in your quote, and where I said ''self-awareness''.

But when youre projecting beyond where you are, it does seem that youre caught up in conceptual thinking. At the end of my conceptual thinking is that without 'I' or the recognition of language, the human state cannot be maintained.

But my non-conceptual living simply uses the language as the arbitrary stylisation of meaning and not meaning. In short, I feel what it means and dont need to explain it, unless I am on a journey to discover it (hint-hint) but if it is discoverd...then all the need to explain or analyse just blows away like dust in the breeze.

[andrew g]

Originally Posted by xxheatherxx

But when youre projecting beyond where you are, it does seem that youre caught up in conceptual thinking. At the end of my conceptual thinking is that without 'I' or the recognition of language, the human state cannot be maintained.

I agree that without the conceptual 'I' the human state cannot be maintained. The way the world is right now, we would probably die without it. Thats exactly why I said that our functioning depends currently on the belief that 'I exist'. We all have that belief to at least some tiny degree, otherwise we wouldnt be able to function. We need that smidgen of self-awareness in order to cross the street without getting hit by cars. The whole world is set up on the foundation of self-awareness and the belief that 'I exist'. If we were to transcend that belief the world would change beyond comprehension. We wouldnt even really be human anymore. There would be stuff like teleportation and telepathy and instant manifestation. Real sci-fi stuff basically.

Just to respond to the edit. You may consciously play with meanings, but when it comes down to brass tacks, i.e in a grocery store you ask the person at the counter how much something is, you are not playing with meaning then, you are conveying meaning more directly. This requires at least some degree of belief that 'I exist'. That you are talking to me here is also illustrative of the belief.

[sound]

Originally Posted by andrew g

I agree that without the conceptual 'I' the human state cannot be maintained. The way the world is right now, we would probably die without it. Thats exactly why I said that our functioning depends currently on the belief that 'I exist'. We all have that belief to at least some tiny degree, otherwise we wouldnt be able to function. We need that smidgen of self-awareness in order to cross the street without getting hit by cars. The whole world is set up on the foundation of self-awareness and the belief that 'I exist'. If we were to transcend that belief the world would change beyond comprehension. We wouldnt even really be human anymore. There would be stuff like teleportation and telepathy and instant manifestation. Real sci-fi stuff basically.

Do we not experience existence though andrew rather than simply believe that it is so? Experience doesn't get much more direct than this life surely lol ...

I would also like to acknowledge the contributions to the thread here ... I am thoroughly enjoying what everyone is sharing .. I have had a few simple thoughts lol ... Can we truly claim we are consciously selfless?

[andrew g]

Originally Posted by sound

Do we not experience existence though andrew rather than simply believe that it is so?

We experience a sense of existence for as long as we believe that we exist. When we release that belief we trade in the experience of existence and the experience of self for a direct experience of love, light, ease and joy.

The thing is that we like the sense of existence and the sense of self so we only trade in that experience for a different one when we are ready.

Essentially we ARE existence, so when we have released the belief that we HAVE an existence, we dont experience existence as such because its that very belief that we have an existence that creates the artificial sense of being separate.