Hard to love others? Been lied to and betrayed? Step right up...let's help each other

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

It's a good thing babies are cute, so our parents will put up with us, eh?
There is no ugly baby or small one in the eye of the loving beholder.
Evan as the toddlers pick up loaded guns and shoot and beat on one another, LOL...and abuse the stuff out of one another...and set the grounds on fire...

So I think this is a very reasonable analogy then.

WOW! -Realistic or not, that strikes me as being quite the amazing 'dream'!

I wonder what Jeff Dahmer's and De Sade's mothers and fathers, here or wherever they are now, thought and felt and now think and feel about them.

Originally Posted by davidsun

It strikes me that such an idea might (implicitly?) belief-presume that everything that, or every aspect of what one, ex-peer-iences is (completely?) self-determined, that is 'determined' by one's personal self.

It's a nature versus nurture argument that has no real conclusion, but it seems that every time I've had it we agree to the good stuff but never the bad stuff. A betrayal is something we'd never have agreed to. If we signed up for our Karmic Agreements then Spiritual development makes sense, if we didn't then it's random happenstance. Either way Spirit isn't stupid, we came here through our own Free Will knowing it wasn't going to be a walk in the park. We develop as much if not more Spiritually by experience rather than reading books, it is a Journey to Self after all. You don't develop forgiveness by having nothing to forgive and in a betrayal the 'real you' would shine through, whatever shape or form that takes and that gives you the opportunity for some serious self-awareness.


So many discussions on karma and it's almost always projected into the future, but according to Tolle there is only the Now, the past is memory and the future is expectation so keeping it with the OP you're (wider 'you') not dealing with betrayal any more. What you're dealing with is memories of the action and your own personal perceptions of it, and that's very different. So in that respect it's you that's creating your own reality by your definitions. It's also your ego that feels the betrayal, your Spirit certainly doesn't. Betrayal begins with you making two judgements, having expectations and a contract that the other person didn't sign up for. So either way betrayal is the bed you made and you should have the courage to sleep in it and realise it's your own jolly old karma at work.

Nothing happens TO us, everything happens BECAUSE of us.

[Dargor]

Truth is, some people don't deserve forgiveness. Neither does this world and it's inhabitants deserve my love. What's the point of it? What do I gain by by being an all-loving hippy?

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Oh, wow...what a great question to get people to ask themselves..brilliant of you, my friend!

I am shockingly aware of how much I am loved by my Creator...with all my warts, as they say.
This allows me to feel like a beloved princess of a King.
In the afterlife...I have made 'plans' , lol....for years!

The plan...Jesus or someone like him greets me with love that could melt
a rock in a snowstorm, buckling my knees ...figuratively....
I see some loving family....then, I say to him, "OK, can we go see our Dad now?"

I am in a place for years...of understanding completely what this means...'go boldly to the throne'.

I am and all of us are loved beyond imagination by God, this Magnificent Being...be a baby and let
yourselves be held and nursed by our Father/Mother God.
The entire Universe, invisible to these eyes is in an unending Divine Embrace...
join in, be part of it....and why wait till you're on the Other Side, I say!!!!

Thank you Miss H, much appreciated.

The reason the answer to Life, the Universe, Everything was 42 was because Deep Thought couldn't understand the question in the first place, so he built a computer to find the question to the answer.

And when you're the answer but you don't know you're looking for the question?

If Creator Loves us even though we couldn't learn to forgive - or anything else we might beat ourselves up about - couldn't we do the same?

This is where Love becomes conditional, - and by the way, unconditionally is a condition - we'll Love ourselves when we're in heaven, when it's all over. So much Spiritual wisdom regarding betrayal yet never finding what we really need.

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Well, yeah...
You're a smart guy...you must know you are creating everything in your little world, no?
Nothing happens to us...it is all by us.

Originally Posted by davidsun

In my 'view', what you say amounts to self-'Godification' (with a capital "G") - which, again in my 'view', is not born out by facts, each and everyone of us being, again in my view, jes being part of a 'greater' Living Being co-relating 'therein' with the beingnesses of a myriad others.

Errrr yes.

God made man, man made religion, religion made God. And you are the co-creator of your reality - "your little world". In your reality you're probably clenching your jaw and thinking "Damn, not that Greeny again."

Your reality is defined by your perceptions, your perceptions are defined by your beliefs and your beliefs are defined by your definitions. You have a definition of what Spirituality is or isn't (everybody has, me too) and your beliefs are set against that. That's forgetting what's rattling around in your head for now, because that plays its part too. The bottom line is that you are the framework of your conscious existential existence (very Spiritual phrase for "your little world") and the reason it has been created that way, just the same as everyone else. The 'Godification' is yours.

Alan Watts said that if you are Spiritual you are God playing at being not-God. To me personally it's just another contradiction where one truth negates another.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

Truth is, some people don't deserve forgiveness. Neither does this world and it's inhabitants deserve my love. What's the point of it? What do I gain by by being an all-loving hippy?

Nothing .

[Ziusudra]

Got any helpful insights or hints as to how to forgive even the worst hurts and slights?
Ha, and then move right on into Love, Kindness, Compassion and Understanding?

With some people, it is not about forgiving.
But it is about understanding their underlying psychological or neurological disorders.

For an example,
I have a back stabber as one of my co-workers. She does this to pretty much anyone.
I and others carefully assessed her behaviors and actions, then we diagnosed her to have a bolderline personality disorder. - a couple of us are in mental health field so we know how.
She fits right into the typical conditions of this disorder.

She creates a hostile work environment and we all wish that she moves to a different place.

Once I realized her issue, I was able to understand her behaviors and learnt to stay away from her.
Really... there is not a reason to even forgive.
Obviously, she does not know what she is doing is wrong due to her disorder.
So, .. It is just accepting and move on.

And .. No on love.. since she is not lovable as she is.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Molearner

Miss Hepburn,
This I don't understand. In your previous post you were ebullent in your praise for God. In this posting you are seemingly ignoring the reality of grace. IMO grace does not originate with us, it is not by us that grace appears. Does your stance deny the existence of grace?.........:)

WHAT are you talking about, (oh, you don't know me, lol) ...
Grace, that should only be capitalized, imo...I could gush for an hour about Grace!
Grace is like stardust directly from Heaven in my life.
That is the only reason for anything IN my life.
See, I better stop now. Grace and only Grace has made me the person I am today.
(And I have no idea why I have so much Grace in my life! All I can think is, ♫ "I must have done something good."♫ )

[Miss Hepburn]

Funny , someone mentioned 'back stabber'...since on another forum where
the Christians are pushing an eternal lake of fire and a discussion is in motion!

I told a story about the other day talking to a guy at a 7/11...teeth missing, speech
impediment, Fernando...he showed me the bandage where his girlfriend stabbed him!!

Puncturing his lung!
He forgave her.

I said if Fernando can forgive her after all the legal hassles he is still dealing with..being arrested
himself for nothing..I think God can forgive us of plenty! Ha...

[Dargor]

Originally Posted by Gem

Nothing .

exactly, that nails it.