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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Spiritual Development

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  #261  
Old Yesterday, 10:36 AM
Greenslade Greenslade is offline
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Originally Posted by Emm
Must be our age LOL, it takes a lot of energy to harbour old grudges.
Sometimes you just can't be bothered with the dramas when the reserves aren't what they used to be. They say youth is wasted on the young.

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Originally Posted by Emm
You don't have to consciously develop spiritually...my husband certainly doesn't see the need he prefers to just enjoy every moment, in fact he loves to moan, he does it so well even his grandkids call him Grumps However in a crisis he comes up with the most wisest of comments...most unlike him True though, there must be something to be learned on both sides of the coin so maybe calling it "wrong behaviour" was a mistake on my part. Articulating what I mean isnt a strong point of mine
Spirituality doesn't always bring wisdom and wisdom doesn't always come from Spirituality. Often the greatest wisdom has come from living a Life with open eyes and having learned and experienced what Life itself has brought your way. Spirituality is not a good teacher of human nature, and that's what makes the Universe tick.


If there is no coin? If there just is?


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Originally Posted by Emm
Yes deep seated repetitive thoughts certainly give the wheel its momentum ...if only we knew how to switch it off? I used to work with preschoolers and one of the things we were taught when encountering emotional outbursts was simply to redirect their attention elsewhere...it worked remarkably well...its all a matter of focus, I even tried this with adults including myself of course lol.
That's the thing, sometimes people just don't know any better. Some want to keep that particular wheel turning while others can't find a way to jump off it. But if we started thinking "What's going on with them?" we're at least beginning to turn all of that around. I have a favourite saying that's helped me quite a bit - "Look behind the mask." The mask is the emotional outburst and something has led to it, and even if we think 'OK, there's something wrong with them' it turns everything around and - as you say - redirects our focus. If someone kicks off and we respond automatically with "You bounder, you cad!" then we're just as guilty of spinning the wheel.

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Originally Posted by Emm
Yes I can understand that...but unfortunately it also leads to Self Pity which isnt comforting...it just keeps you in suffering. I knew someone very close to me like that ...they become very manipulative and doesn't bode well in relationships.
It can lead to self pity but it can also lead to other things as well, sometimes it's just an automatic behaviour that is triggered and there can seem like a loss of control. Sometimes there's a frustration that people are responding the same way and often a different response makes a huge difference.

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Originally Posted by Emm
I guess it depends on triggers...I met my dad this year after a 40 year absence. I always thought it would be good to meet him again but I didn't expect some of the resistance I felt at times during conversation. I could have communicated it but saw little need to bring up old wounds after such a long time so let it go. Some things stay buried until the right moment comes up for healing...we just need to be aware I guess.
There are no easy answers, I guess it's a Life's Purpose for some and their brains have just been hardwired with it, and that's something that takes a lot of changing and you have little control over it. Sometimes the best you can do is acknowledge they are the way they are.


Sometimes the unresolved issues stay with you and they can be very hard to let go of if they aren't brought to any kind of conclusion, and sometimes they can bring you straight back to where you left off. Feelings aren't always affected by the passage of time and it doesn't always heal all wounds. But I;d like to believe that somewhere inside we connect at a deeply Spiritual level even if we're not conscious of it at the time, and as long as we can be at least accepting we've got half a chance.


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Originally Posted by Emm
Well it seems there are many ideas of what spirituality is ...but I see your point. Live in the moment, but isn't that also being spiritual even if you don't know it?
Well, that's the big question, isn't it?
"Spirituality is not theology or ideology. It is simply a way of life, pure and original as was given by the Most High of Creation. Spirituality is a network linking us to the Most High, the universe, and each other…”

Haile Selassie


He says it much better than I could. I've never really been much interested in the ideologies and the theologies although I'll Google something if I feel the need. And for me, there's far more to betrayal than ideologies.



"God made man, man made religion and belief systems."


Quote:
Originally Posted by Emm
Often its not what you've done but how you feel about yourself or beliefs you hold for the world in general...with betrayal and lies maybe you have trust issues and the betrayal is confirmation that no one can be trusted which intensifies the belief which attracts more of the same...karma, cause and effect. All this may simply have had its beginnings when a parent breaks a promise.
Again there are no simple answers, just a whole huge pile of possibilities that may go back to even childhood as you're suggesting. Beliefs, paradigms, expectations, past experiences......


It's been said that if you don't know where you've come from you don't know where you're going, so how true is that of our pasts and how they've led us here? If we could discuss how we ourselves have been brought here and get it all vented, would we find it easier to forgive others because we understand ourselves better? Or vice versa?
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  #262  
Old Yesterday, 11:04 AM
Greenslade Greenslade is offline
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Originally Posted by Gem
I'm not so sure because the investment of trust that enables a betrayal to break the trust makes it destructive beyond the immediate circumstance.
Which is why I used the word 'avalanche', because betrayal can have repercussions that go very deep and are carried for a long time, and it can also begin with childhood experiences/perceptions. With betrayal there are no easy answers but if we're really going to understand it we have to look deeply into the places that aren't that pleasant - and that's within ourselves.


We're going to move forwards with it no matter what, the question is what do we move forwards with? The realisation that in the present our perceptions of the past creates our future, and what kind of future that will be? That we can turn the destructive into constructive?
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  #263  
Old Yesterday, 12:19 PM
Roger Wilco Roger Wilco is offline
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how to love others and why , not love others is there a gain to be had or a loss like some planned objective ?
love is just there all around if some one likes to be emerged in it
sure he should come forward and sit in this love its a very pleasant experience need there even be talked about ?
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  #264  
Old Yesterday, 12:36 PM
Greenslade Greenslade is offline
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Originally Posted by davidsun
P.S. Oh, yeah - and then there's my interest in hearing what peeps have to say about the sexual abuse of children by Catholic priests in Pennsylviani and the cover up (by Bishops!), till now that is, that being reported in the news. And PLEASE, if at all possible, don't just minimize and dismiss it all as just being a 'dream' or just 'karma' or the result of the operation of the LOA - that is, if any other ideas strike you are being more realistic/plausible - such ideas just don't 'cut the mustard' for me.
This isn't happening only in Pennsylvania, just recently a few of the Catholic-run homes in Scotland have been shut down for the same thing - and they've been staffed by nuns. It's been happening in many places for many years world-wide, including Nigeria and Rwanda. The good news is that it's finally coming into the daylight to be addressed or at least acknowledged, whereas in the past it was hushed up.


I guess it's easier to deal with when there is no direct involvement, when the eyes are turned away and it's forgotten about, but real people are having those very real experiences and the Spiritual ideologies and theologies aren't helping. They're not making a difference.


I spent a few years in the against child abuse arena, mainly because initially I wanted to make a difference and I wanted to seek out people with whom I could do that. If I were to be brutally honest I was also looking for a way in which I might heal myself. The main thrust of that particular movement was what was known as 'child stealing by the state', and by the way it happens in America and Australia too. Essentially it was the destruction of families and by extension the rest of society for the sake of funding. And no, it's not a conspiracy theory - it's factual. Your tax dollars at work, people.



I have no real answers for you, David. I could babble on about Karmic Obligations and learning the lessons but that would only be the booby prize. Somewhere inside I have to come to terms with feeling as though I want to nail someone to the wall and finding a way for my beliefs and ideals to actually have any real meaning and substance. And regardless of what any of us may want to believe or not, there was a Soul that had that experience. The atrocities have been happening since the dawn of civilisation but it's a past that's soon forgotten about, and they are as much a part of our collective legacy as all the Spiritual teachings.
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  #265  
Old Yesterday, 06:38 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
I have no real answers for you, David. I could babble on about Karmic Obligations and learning the lessons but that would only be the booby prize. Somewhere inside I have to come to terms with feeling as though I want to nail someone to the wall and finding a way for my beliefs and ideals to actually have any real meaning and substance. And regardless of what any of us may want to believe or not, there was a Soul that had that experience. The atrocities have been happening since the dawn of civilisation but it's a past that's soon forgotten about, and they are as much a part of our collective legacy as all the Spiritual teachings.


In my final analyis, I have come to think/see/believe that the whole idea of 'forgiveness' is an ego-derived boondoggle - thinking that someone owes a 'debt' - to us personally, to society, or the 'God'.

In my view, 'Life' is 'free' - expecting/wishing/wanting it to e otherwise makes not real difference - no one really 'owes' anyone anything - the only thing that is real is response-ability (insofar as anyone is 'capable' in some regard).

We (some?) can/may choose to simply move on because they see that as being the 'better' (for themselves and/or for Life). I remember choosing to stop 'blaming', being 'angry' at, 'hating' etc. my ex-wife because I saw, i.e. understood, that such e-motions would only serve to tear her 'down' and I wanted her to be the best mother she could be to our daughter (because I loved and wanted our daughter to have the 'best' mother possible for her sake). I supposed I would have eventually (thought not as quickly maybe) stopped 'blaming', being 'anger', 'hating', etc. her because I wanted to 'free' myself from such horrible feelings n' e-motions and engage in more positive ones so that I would have a 'better' quality of life - because I 'loved' myself enough to 'give' myself that.

This is quite a different thing than 'lovingly' accepting a pedophile priest's 'confession' or a bishop's going easy on him (after he 'confessed') for 'the sake of' 'Jesus', 'the Church', 'the Body of Christ', or whatever.

Anyone who doesn't do what that he or she can to be 'corrective' in relation to (as opposed to simply 'allow') anti-Life acts - even if the most he or she can 'afford' to do (given his or her other life-commitments) is to make e-motional 'prayers' and send 'wishes' in whatever he/she thinks would be a 'corrective' directions - is remiss in 'simply' being accepting (forgiving :smile) etc. IMO. 'Armchair' 'lovers' and 'forgivers' of 'evil' doers do not have my 'acceptance' (forgiveness ) etc. at least - whether these be 'bishops' or holy folks of 'lesser' status, such as 'priests', 'renunciates', 'devotees' of 'love' or 'loving kindness', etc., etc., etc.

Sometimes wishing certain kinds of peeps (who operate in ways that are 'unsalutry') 'off' the earth as soon as possible may be a 'very good' 'deed', in my book albeit I would suggest wishing that they learn 'better' before they 'go' if at all possible (not making this a 'necessary' condition for the former wish to be executed) might be a worthwhile addition.
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  #266  
Old Yesterday, 08:54 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Originally Posted by Emm
You might not like the idea of karma and LOA David but I see it as a reality ...
I remember reading (I think it was in one of the LOA 'apologist' par excellence, Seth's books) that we all kind of 'engineer' our own 'death'-events and that the fella who he was talking about who died in a volcanic lava flow actually wanted (and so 'attracted') dying that want in order to experience being 'immersed' (or something like that) in and being 'carried away' by raw power to the 'utmost' degree.

LOL! The only kind of person who I can imagine 'wanting' to experience something like that is a person having a psychotic break and 'calling down' something like 'god's wrath' (a/k/a volcanic hell-burning) in some kind of crazy' attempt expiation from some imagined horrendous 'sin' he or she thought and felt she had committed and 'should' be punished for - a kind of 'final' self-flagelating, and so 'holy', act.

I suppose many find a peculiar kind of 'comfort' in imagining and believing in the LOA such that everything that 'happens' to one is one's own 'creation' - which results in one's playing (in) a kind of 'supreme' 'God' game, IMO.

Not that I don't think that our emotions, desires, aversions, etc. don't have any 'attractive' power - I think they are quite potent - mind you!

Just that they aren't 'supremely' potent, IMO. My logic leads me to believe that this is a much more reasonable, i.e. not 'crazy', me-Tarzan-God-my-experience-is-Jane, kind of imagining.

The way I see, think and feel about 'child-abuse' ('bad' things happening to 'good' people) etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. is more often than not people get 'abused' as a result of competition and 'selfishness' being 'built into' the composite-ion of this 'world' (made up of composite 'elements' and compound 'personalities') - not because they 'attracted' such experience - that's like projecting that someone who is raped must have 'invited' being raped in some way.

What we all do have, I believe, is 'immortal' spirit which gives us the power to make 'the best' out of even 'the worst' kind of experience - which is not 'supreme' power - but something that's even 'better' than that, IMO.
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