Why do many people claim they are enlightened when they are not?

[7luminaries]

It was refreshing to hear a Ron Hubbard channeled interview the other day where he said that he was in it purely for himself and not for the benefit of others .

But what of those who misdirect others with their own misdirection?
They are in it purely for themselves too, hahaha and many would absolutely agree they are following their heart.

Like the abuse of tantra for sexual indulgence that Jeremy mentioned.
Which at humanity's current level of development, is going to be the case probably 99.99999999% of the time -- as practised by loads of indulgent gents and their co-dependent camp followers.

Though of course I know you do not fall into this bucket. And I assume Ron Hubbard does not either (?), LOL.

I'm just saying that any solely self-referential standard alone does not guide you forward in and of itself. Not unless you are already centred in authentic love and you actively desire and seek the highest good of the other(s) equally to the self.

From a place of true knowing and wisdom and oneness with others in their infinite uniqueness, it becomes clear that using or exploiting them for one's own base purposes (like in tantra misuse) is never in anyone's highest good...no matter under what (potentially compromised) setting or misunderstanding they may have "consented". Because IMO it's always down to our own intentions to seek the highest mutual good of all -- OR not --and that's all we need to concern ourselves with.

Peace & blessings Dazzer
7L

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

But what of those who misdirect others with their own misdirection?
They are in it purely for themselves too, hahaha and many would absolutely agree they are following their heart.

Like the abuse of tantra for sexual indulgence that Jeremy mentioned.
Which at humanity's current level of development, is going to be the case probably 99.99999999% of the time -- as practised by loads of indulgent gents and their co-dependent camp followers.

Though of course I know you do not fall into this bucket. And I assume Ron Hubbard does not either (?), LOL.

I'm just saying that any solely self-referential standard alone does not guide you forward in and of itself. Not unless you are already centred in authentic love and you actively desire and seek the highest good of the other(s) equally to the self.

From a place of true knowing and wisdom and oneness with others in their infinite uniqueness, it becomes clear that using or exploiting them for one's own base purposes (like in tantra misuse) is never in anyone's highest good...no matter under what (potentially compromised) setting or misunderstanding they may have "consented". Because IMO it's always down to our own intentions to seek the highest mutual good of all -- OR not --and that's all we need to concern ourselves with.

Peace & blessings Dazzer
7L

I would say it's quite easy to speak as if one is enlightened or wise and fluent in spiritual doctrines .

Something I stumbled across through my spirit connections had the other month was with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and it was said he "amassed a personal fortune that his spokesman told one reporter may exceed $1 billion .

John Lennon later told his wife that he felt that the Maharishi had, in her words, "too much interest in public recognition, celebrities and money" for a spiritual man ..

I had a osho connection the other day and when researching him I found out that he also had a colourful life to say the least and had a fleet of 93 rolls royces ..

Even Tolle in previous conversation had with a few others speaks about ego and not attaining more than one needs to amass a small fortune of his own ..

There is nothing wrong with money and fame and all that jazz, one can't help what one attracts or what one amasses but there is something about ego and letting go of the material world that doesn't sit well with the desires of the material and the holding on to that which one amasses .

The non ego stuff doesn't quite stack up when one signs a contract for another book deal lol .

Hand on heart how can a yogi - master - teacher speak about rising above it all while collecting rolls royces?

Some teachings in my eyes refers to Love and bliss like peeps float on air, butt you don't float while your still attached to what you represent in someway, shape or form .


x daz x

[sky]

Buddha taught that wealth is blameless if it's obtained rightfully and without deception, violence, stealing etc:
Right livelihood ( Noble Eightfold Path ) explains his teaching.

Wealth used in the right way can benefit others but unfortunately it can be a case of ' the more you have the more you want ' and greed sets in...

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by sky123

Buddha taught that wealth is blameless if it's obtained rightfully and without deception, violence, stealing etc:
Right livelihood ( Noble Eightfold Path ) explains his teaching.

Wealth used in the right way can benefit others but unfortunately it can be a case of ' the more you have the more you want ' and greed sets in...

I agree that wealth is not to blame .

What doesn't stack up for some is their teachings about being egoless and rising above the material / ordinary mind, when one is quite simply seduced by it ..

This is why practicing what you preach stands the test of time where other preachers / teachers fall short .


x daz x

[neil]

Being a fully "enlightened/ascended" being would mean being as jesus was...ATONE WITH GOD AND GODS WAY OF LOVE, AND CAPABLE OF DISPLAYING A FULL ABILITY TO MANIFEST IN THE PHYSICAL ANYTHING THAT ONE COULD DESIRE FOR A DRY AND COMFORTABLE LIFE..:- IE "YOU WOULD BE A CHRISTED BEING".

And have an ability whilst having out of body experiences, to traverse the universe and enter into the many mansions within the holy kingdom.

And once one has become fully atone with creator and has experienced the grandeur of the most salubrious kingdom....ONE WOULD QUICKLY LOSE THE DESIRE FOR WEALTH, ROLLS-ROYCE, FAME...ETC ETC ETC.

If a person who is the "epitome" of the TRUTH of "enlightenment" atone with the almighty, decided to continue living life on earth, it would be a total life in selfless service of others.

And any down time would be spent visiting the holy kingdom whilst in an out of body state of being...
...NO TIME FOR WEALTH, FAME OR DRIVING AROUND IN A "ROLLS"

You would sell your non essential possessions and put a roof over heads of the poor and also food in their mouths.

You would more than likely never set sight on your wealth let alone your house and rolls-royce vehicals ever again, as life would see you on a continual life of travels as you spoke, taught and healed others. One experience would lead to another and then another and you would not find a necessity to visit family members ever again...especially if your family members refused to receive your assistance in becoming a fully enlightened being themselves. ...you would find that leaving them would be simple as you would have absolutely nothing in common with them whatsoever.

I believe and have said before that the truth of the concept of enlightenment is incorrect and the so called enlightened ones of earth are fully under the negative influence of very dark beings.

My truths..and time will tell, when we finally are living the life without the flesh for ever more....smiles.

[Jeremy Bong]

Originally Posted by neil

Being a fully "enlightened/ascended" being would mean being as jesus was...ATONE WITH GOD AND GODS WAY OF LOVE, AND CAPABLE OF DISPLAYING A FULL ABILITY TO MANIFEST IN THE PHYSICAL ANYTHING THAT ONE COULD DESIRE FOR A DRY AND COMFORTABLE LIFE..:- IE "YOU WOULD BE A CHRISTED BEING".

And have an ability whilst having out of body experiences, to traverse the universe and enter into the many mansions within the holy kingdom.

And once one has become fully atone with creator and has experienced the grandeur of the most salubrious kingdom....ONE WOULD QUICKLY LOSE THE DESIRE FOR WEALTH, ROLLS-ROYCE, FAME...ETC ETC ETC.

If a person who is the "epitome" of the TRUTH of "enlightenment" atone with the almighty, decided to continue living life on earth, it would be a total life in selfless service of others.

And any down time would be spent visiting the holy kingdom whilst in an out of body state of being...
...NO TIME FOR WEALTH, FAME OR DRIVING AROUND IN A "ROLLS"

You would sell your non essential possessions and put a roof over heads of the poor and also food in their mouths.

You would more than likely never set sight on your wealth let alone your house and rolls-royce vehicals ever again, as life would see you on a continual life of travels as you spoke, taught and healed others. One experience would lead to another and then another and you would not find a necessity to visit family members ever again...especially if your family members refused to receive your assistance in becoming a fully enlightened being themselves. ...you would find that leaving them would be simple as you would have absolutely nothing in common with them whatsoever.

I believe and have said before that the truth of the concept of enlightenment is incorrect and the so called enlightened ones of earth are fully under the negative influence of very dark beings.

My truths..and time will tell, when we finally are living the life without the flesh for ever more....smiles.

.

Do you know what you're talking about: " the concept of enlightenment is incorrect.... fully under negative influence of very dark beings"?

So you're better than Buddha Sakyamuni or his teaching. He's an enlightened person. So you're now a "christed person", so you get this type of nonsense speech?

Don't forget whatever you said is merely assumption of no proof and you never come across. Or you've been affected by darkness energy then everyone has to be like you?

What about "you living without flesh" if at that time isn't as you expected. It's all your assumptions.

Do you want to tell people :you mustn't be enlightened otherwise will be affected by darkness energy or beings? Joker of the era!!!

[sky]

Originally Posted by neil

Being a fully "enlightened/ascended" being would mean being as jesus was...ATONE WITH GOD AND GODS WAY OF LOVE, AND CAPABLE OF DISPLAYING A FULL ABILITY TO MANIFEST IN THE PHYSICAL ANYTHING THAT ONE COULD DESIRE FOR A DRY AND COMFORTABLE LIFE..:- IE "YOU WOULD BE A CHRISTED BEING".

And have an ability whilst having out of body experiences, to traverse the universe and enter into the many mansions within the holy kingdom.

And once one has become fully atone with creator and has experienced the grandeur of the most salubrious kingdom....ONE WOULD QUICKLY LOSE THE DESIRE FOR WEALTH, ROLLS-ROYCE, FAME...ETC ETC ETC.

If a person who is the "epitome" of the TRUTH of "enlightenment" atone with the almighty, decided to continue living life on earth, it would be a total life in selfless service of others.

And any down time would be spent visiting the holy kingdom whilst in an out of body state of being...
...NO TIME FOR WEALTH, FAME OR DRIVING AROUND IN A "ROLLS"

You would sell your non essential possessions and put a roof over heads of the poor and also food in their mouths.

You would more than likely never set sight on your wealth let alone your house and rolls-royce vehicals ever again, as life would see you on a continual life of travels as you spoke, taught and healed others. One experience would lead to another and then another and you would not find a necessity to visit family members ever again...especially if your family members refused to receive your assistance in becoming a fully enlightened being themselves. ...you would find that leaving them would be simple as you would have absolutely nothing in common with them whatsoever.

I believe and have said before that the truth of the concept of enlightenment is incorrect and the so called enlightened ones of earth are fully under the negative influence of very dark beings.

My truths..and time will tell, when we finally are living the life without the flesh for ever more....smiles.

As Buddhist Schools cannot agree to what Buddha became awakened to then we can only guess

Reading Suttas give you an idea and I presume he saw things as they really are ( dharma ) .

[sky]

Originally Posted by God-Like

I agree that wealth is not to blame .

What doesn't stack up for some is their teachings about being egoless and rising above the material / ordinary mind, when one is quite simply seduced by it ..

This is why practicing what you preach stands the test of time where other preachers / teachers fall short .


x daz x

Yes I agree, ' You will know them by their fruits ' comes to mind also...

[Jeremy Bong]

Originally Posted by sky123

As Buddhist Schools cannot agree to what Buddha became awakened to then we can only guess

Reading Suttas give you an idea and I presume he saw things as they really are ( dharma ) .

This is what he's doing, the seven weeks after Buddha Sakyamuni is enlightened:

(Part One) 18. Seven Weeks After Enlightenment

Under the Bodhi Tree

During the first week after enlightenment, the Buddha sat under the bodhi tree experiencing the happiness of freedom and peace. He was free from disturbing thoughts, calm and blissful.

Gazing at the Tree

During the second week, in thanks and gratitude to the tree that had sheltered him during his struggle for Buddhahood, the Buddha stood without moving his eyes as he meditated on the bodhi tree.

Following this example, it is the custom of Buddhists to pay respect to not only the original bodhi tree, but also to the descendants of the bodhi tree that still thrive today.

The Golden Bridge

In the third week, the Buddha saw through his mind’s eye that the devas in the heavens were not sure whether he had attained enlightenment or not. To prove his enlightenment the Buddha created a golden bridge in the air and walked up and down it for a whole week.

The Jewelled Chamber

In the fourth week, he created a beautiful jewelled chamber and sitting inside it meditated on what was later known as the "Detailed Teaching" (Abhidhamma). His mind and body were so purified that six coloured rays came out of his body — blue, yellow, red, white, orange and a mixture of these five. Today these six colours make up the Buddhist flag. Each colour represented one noble quality of the Buddha: yellow for holiness, white for purity, blue for confidence, red for wisdom and orange for desirelessness. The mixed colour represented all these noble qualities.

Three Girls

During the fifth week, while meditating under a banyan tree, three most charming girls called Tanha, Rati and Raga came to disturb his meditation. They danced in a most seductive and charming manner and did everything to tempt the Buddha to watch their dance. Yet he continued to meditate unperturbed, and soon they tired and left him alone.

The Mucalinda Tree

The Buddha then went and meditated at the foot of a mucalinda tree. It began to rain heavily and a huge king cobra came out and coiled his body seven times around the Buddha to keep him warm and placed his hood over the Buddha’s head to protect him from the rain. After seven days the rain stopped and the snake changed into a young man who paid his respects to the Buddha. The Buddha then said:

"Happy are they who are contented. Happiness is for those who hear and know the truth. Happy are they who have good will in this world towards all sentient beings. Happy are they who have no attachments and have passed beyond sense-desires. The disappearance of the word "I AM " is indeed the highest happiness."

The Rajayatana Tree

During the seventh week, the Buddha meditated under the rajayatana tree. On the fiftieth morning, after seven weeks of fasting, two merchants came into his presence. They were called Tapussa and Bhallika. They offered the Buddha rice cakes and honey to break his fast and the Buddha told them some of what he had found in his enlightenment.

These two merchants, by taking refuge in the Buddha and his Dharma (translated as "teachings of the Buddha"), became the first lay followers. There was no Sangha (order of monks and nuns) then. They asked the Buddha for something sacred to keep with them. The Buddha wiped his head with his right hand and pulled out some hair to give to them. These hair relics, called Kesa Datu, were later reputed to be enshrined by the merchants on their return home to what is now known as Burma, in the Shwedagon Pagoda in Rangoon.

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So neil or sky just to agree what you're not yet knowing.

[django]

"No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money."

I like the hard line here, it's God OR it's money, not it's money and God as long as God is actually the most important.

Not that I am there yet, but I see it as a point to achieve.