How Ego-Death actually blocks Spiritual Growth

[Sozerius]

I believe that Ego-Death is an instrument of Asian spiritual control- in order to prevent people from gaining power or ability by making them believe in losing the 'self'. Without the self a person would not want to do anything- thus would gain nothing.

Just as Christianity is the spiritual tool of control in the US to a large degree.. it seems that Bhuddism is not much different in that it is designed to set up control over the populace in oder to create limitations.

I know that many will disagree with me. But this is not something oft thought of or discussed. Each country has a religion that is there to control the populace and create limitation. They each do it in different ways- but they do it nonetheless.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Sozerius

. Without the self a person would not want to do anything- thus would gain nothing.
.

Hi Soz .

What can the self possibly lose or gain?

x dazzle x

[Sozerius]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Hi Soz .

What can the self possibly lose or gain?

x dazzle x

Anything that you could possibly think of or imagine, of course.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Sozerius

Anything that you could possibly think of or imagine, of course.

I can't imagine what the self can lose or gain .

What is of the self will always be . One cannot add or subtract from what is self .

The self is all there is .


x dazzle x

Originally Posted by Sozerius

I believe that Ego-Death is an instrument of Asian spiritual control- in order to prevent people from gaining power or ability by making them believe in losing the 'self'. Without the self a person would not want to do anything- thus would gain nothing.

Just as Christianity is the spiritual tool of control in the US to a large degree.. it seems that Bhuddism is not much different in that it is designed to set up control over the populace in oder to create limitations.

I know that many will disagree with me. But this is not something oft thought of or discussed. Each country has a religion that is there to control the populace and create limitation. They each do it in different ways- but they do it nonetheless.

I don't believe it was created to control. Religions naturally develop and intermingle with politics. Even general spirituality has it's own political and social dimensions; they're a part of life.

I think cultural issues come into play here. Many modern westerners, particularly Americans, place a great emphasis on personal freedom and conscious identity formation. Thus, notions of ego-death spoken of by Sufis and Sadhus tend to seem blasphemous; along with ideas of unwavering loyalty to lord and country extolled by Confucianism.

Thus, I don't think the idea of ego-death itself is an instrument of control - even if it can be utilized by ruling powers in some form. Rope can be used for tying a gate so your cattle don't escape, or as a noose to hang or bind yourself. Same with religious and cultural ideas.

[Sozerius]

Originally Posted by God-Like

I can't imagine what the self can lose or gain .

What is of the self will always be . One cannot add or subtract from what is self .

The self is all there is .


x dazzle x

... er-- Well, sounds like you must think life is um.. pointless! ^_^'''

[Sozerius]

Originally Posted by Animus27

I don't believe it was created to control. Religions naturally develop and intermingle with politics. Even general spirituality has it's own political and social dimensions; they're a part of life.

I think cultural issues come into play here. Many modern westerners, particularly Americans, place a great emphasis on personal freedom and conscious identity formation. Thus, notions of ego-death spoken of by Sufis and Sadhus tend to seem blasphemous; along with ideas of unwavering loyalty to lord and country extolled by Confucianism.

Thus, I don't think the idea of ego-death itself is an instrument of control - even if it can be utilized by ruling powers in some form. Rope can be used for tying a gate so your cattle don't escape, or as a noose to hang or bind yourself. Same with religious and cultural ideas.

Well I agree in that it is intermingled with politics.

I don't agree that I think so because of American bias however- as this is based on the idea that you actually need to want something for yourself in order to strive to pursue it and generate the energy to gain it. Especially when it comes to spiritual matters, as desire will cause your aura to react to try to gain what you want. The Buddhist way of taking 'self' out of the picture basically eliminates the concept of desire by convincing people that it is an evil construct blocking them from 'ascension'- and yet it is, in reality, the driving force behind our actions, both physically and spiritually.

Additionally, human beings are capable of great feats of spiritual power. But most of the religious institutions that we have today contribute towards crippling the spiritual capabilities that people naturally have.

I think that there are spiritual 'elitist' groups so to speak(I am not talking about any Illuminati etc)- behind the scenes and they have a major influence on the types of religious belief which is in place to limit the minds and spirits of the populace.

Originally Posted by Sozerius

I believe that Ego-Death is an instrument of Asian spiritual control- in order to prevent people from gaining power or ability by making them believe in losing the 'self'. Without the self a person would not want to do anything- thus would gain nothing.

Just as Christianity is the spiritual tool of control in the US to a large degree.. it seems that Bhuddism is not much different in that it is designed to set up control over the populace in oder to create limitations.

I know that many will disagree with me. But this is not something oft thought of or discussed. Each country has a religion that is there to control the populace and create limitation. They each do it in different ways- but they do it nonetheless.

I believe similar. "Ego death" is just another word for control. I don't know where in the hell it came from, all I know is I keep hearing this annoying phrase and the way it plays out is just basically CONTROL. When I was stranded among fundamentalist Christians it was "death to the self" and all this other nonsense....it's a terrible, terrible type of teaching.

As a pagan, as a Seer, as everything that I am inside and out and everything that I do spiritually, I simply cannot ever condone the "ego death", "death to self (or parts thereof)" or any other similar teaching. You must be in harmony with yourself, ALIVE and not dead! Anyone who teaches you to kill off parts of yourself is only trying to control you. I know from experience.

It saddens me that so many people work so very hard to kill off parts of their spirit. As if cutting off their nose to spite their face... It's truly terrible.

[Mr Interesting]

You do have a valid point but i'd surmise you are talking from one side of the fence. Something you might question is when people are without ego; do they choose to come back to ego and can they?

It so happens that in many Buddhist countries the land can only support so many people so youngsters are encouraged to join monasteries but how many, after attaining levels of mastery, go back into normal life and have wives and children? There must be a reason for this and I doubt it's about brainwashing by a powerful elite who choose to keep people in bondage.

Originally Posted by Mr Interesting

You do have a valid point but i'd surmise you are talking from one side of the fence. Something you might question is when people are without ego; do they choose to come back to ego and can they?

It so happens that in many Buddhist countries the land can only support so many people so youngsters are encouraged to join monasteries but how many, after attaining levels of mastery, go back into normal life and have wives and children? There must be a reason for this and I doubt it's about brainwashing by a powerful elite who choose to keep people in bondage.

I don't know...I just don't think it's healthy to look inward, deem a part of yourself to be "EVIL" and try to kill it. I think the attitude's all wrong. Moderation of the ego? Perhaps. Lessening of its control? Perhaps. Slaughtering it? ....well that just sounds a bit out of the ballpark to me. And often the followers of these types of teachings (death to self, death to ego, etc. etc.) turn out predictably neurotic because of it. It's dysfunctional.