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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Buddhism

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  #391  
Old 24-01-2020, 05:40 PM
Phaelyn Phaelyn is offline
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It would be great if somebody translated Buddhism into common use English.

Like:

Buddhism "Mindstream" = English "Self, Non dogmatic definition of Soul"
Buddhism "Not-Self" = English "Liberated Consciousness"
Buddhism "Self" = English "Not Liberated Consciousness, Ego"

English Consciousness = self, awareness, soul, that which is aware.
Buddhism Consciousness = false identity, product of brain, ego, mental processes.

Buddhism to English may lead to a lot of non-sense seems to me. Like a conclusion Buddhism is saying there is no self or me. If Buddhism actually taught that, nobody would be a Buddhist.

Also on using quotes from various Buddhist teachers as some kind of absolute authority. They are just individuals with their own opinions. One master posted in this thread a lot told a recent visitor to his community, where they served her pork for lunch, that it's ok to eat meat if you don't kill the animal yourself. And his quotes keep getting posted as a Buddhist authority.

Better than using somebody else's words is to just post what you believe to be true and why imho. Not I believe so and so is true cause XYZ says so. But so and so is true because I have experienced this or that. I think people like Tolle have basically translated Buddha's teachings into English and found their own version of what he was pointing to. I wonder how much of Buddha's teachings got changed or added to over time. It's kinda hard to reconcile Buddha, who was liberated from mental content, who refused to even answer basic questions about what he was, with a religion where people can post 10,000 words about what the 5 aggregates are or mean.

What is Buddhism? Someone who sees a value in what Buddha did and was and wants to pursue that. Well also many millions of people talking about Buddha and putting their thoughts and opinions to paper.
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  #392  
Old 24-01-2020, 05:48 PM
sky sky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaelyn
It would be great if somebody translated Buddhism into common use English.

Like:

Buddhism "Mindstream" = English "Self, Non dogmatic definition of Soul"
Buddhism "Not-Self" = English "Liberated Consciousness"
Buddhism "Self" = English "Not Liberated Consciousness, Ego"

English Consciousness = self, awareness, soul, that which is aware.
Buddhism Consciousness = false identity, product of brain, ego, mental processes.

Buddhism to English may lead to a lot of non-sense seems to me. Like a conclusion Buddhism is saying there is no self or me. If Buddhism actually taught that, nobody would be a Buddhist.

Also on using quotes from various Buddhist teachers as some kind of absolute authority. They are just individuals with their own opinions. One master posted in this thread a lot told a recent visitor to his community, where they served her pork for lunch, that it's ok to eat meat if you don't kill the animal yourself. And his quotes keep getting posted as a Buddhist authority.

Better than using somebody else's words is to just post what you believe to be true and why imho. Not I believe so and so is true cause XYZ says so. But so and so is true because I have experienced this or that. I think people like Tolle have basically translated Buddha's teachings into English and found their own version of what he was pointing to. I wonder how much of Buddha's teachings got changed or added to over time. It's kinda hard to reconcile Buddha, who was liberated from mental content, who refused to even answer basic questions about what he was, with a religion where people can post 10,000 words about what the 5 aggregates are or mean.

What is Buddhism? Someone who sees a value in what Buddha did and was and wants to pursue that. Well also many millions of people talking about Buddha and putting their thoughts and opinions to paper.






' What is Buddhism?'


' Buddhism is a path of practice and spiritual development leading to Insight into the true nature of reality. Buddhist practices like meditation are means of changing yourself in order to develop the qualities of awareness, kindness, and wisdom. The experience developed within the Buddhist tradition over thousands of years has created an incomparable resource for all those who wish to follow a path — a path which ultimately culminates in Enlightenment or Buddhahood. An enlightened being sees the nature of reality absolutely clearly, just as it is, and lives fully and naturally in accordance with that vision. This is the goal of the Buddhist spiritual life, representing the end of suffering for anyone who attains it.'



Well also many millions of people talking about Buddha and putting their thoughts and opinions to paper.[/QUOTE

Not just putting their thoughts and opinions on paper, but following the Teachings of the Buddha.
You can talk but if you don't do the Practices your wasting your time.
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  #393  
Old 24-01-2020, 06:42 PM
sky sky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
Not a self that makes up a permanent being or a permanent aspect.

Why? Because the aggregates are not permanent.. but nowhere does it say that is not an aspect of you. As a matter of fact he says exactly that.



Now go back and read that again. Don't skip over "the Buddha is affirming that the five aggregates are what you are".

But "to be a true self, has to be permanent" "but these five aggregates don't really qualify to be called a self because they aren't permanent."

Simple and easy to understand.



From my understanding Buddha taught that the aggregates are what you 'Think ' you are.



In several sermons recorded in the Sutta-pitaka, the Buddha taught that clinging to these aggregates as "me" is an illusion. When we realize these aggregates are just temporary phenomena and not-me, we are on the path to enlightenment.
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  #394  
Old 24-01-2020, 06:53 PM
Phaelyn Phaelyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
From my understanding Buddha taught that the aggregates are what you 'Think ' you are.

In several sermons recorded in the Sutta-pitaka, the Buddha taught that clinging to these aggregates as "me" is an illusion. When we realize these aggregates are just temporary phenomena and not-me, we are on the path to enlightenment.

That's my understanding too.
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  #395  
Old 24-01-2020, 07:12 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
From my understanding Buddha taught that the aggregates are what you 'Think ' you are.



In several sermons recorded in the Sutta-pitaka, the Buddha taught that clinging to these aggregates as "me" is an illusion. When we realize these aggregates are just temporary phenomena and not-me, we are on the path to enlightenment.

Exactly. :)

What you think you are is the sensations, pleasure, pain, the body or even consciousness.

"clinging to these aggregates as "me" is an illusion". That "me" as an ego being, that these sensations, this form, this awareness is what "I" am.

For example, I have said you are anger but what is anger?

Again, I will give the tantra view which is in line with my own personal experience.

For example, maybe some big dumb jerk keeps calling you names and saying things about you in a forum.

Let's say it upsets you and you feel angry at the way he/she is acting towards you. You are caught up in the mental aspect of it.

As taught by Dzogchen Master Norbu thoughts are flows of energy. What happens is those flows of energy hit upon an obstruction/issue that then causes a mental upset. You attach to that aggregate or you could say those flows which before may have felt like the wind take on form an emotional upset that we are then caught up in.

Now even those flows are dualistic at this point. There is a you and the flows, even resting in those flows as is taught is still at the dualistic stage.

But to make things easy. Those flows are like the wind. The wind is empty, there is nothing there, nothing to grasp on to, to point to but as we all know it can shape things around it or destroy things.

So in my above example you go from emptiness, to motion/energy, to clinging which creates an attachment which results in an emotional response.

It is all the same thing, just degrees of realization.
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  #396  
Old 24-01-2020, 07:47 PM
Phaelyn Phaelyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
The Not-Self of the Buddha is to refute all of this. That there is no "real self" that there is no "innermost essence...

One could also say I am the real self, I am the innermost essence. That which perceives and has understanding, insight.

One could also say I will come back next life as this or that as the leader of Tibetan Buddhism does. I will exist forever!

The Dalai Lama calls death a “change of clothing.” He has taken to musing aloud that he might be reincarnated as a woman and not in Tibet in his next life.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...xt-incarnation

Mindstream (citta-santāna) in Buddhist philosophy is the moment-to-moment continuum of perception, which is also described as continuing from one life to another. Wikipedia

Mindstream and soul is same basic concept, only difference is Buddhism is against some other religions dogma about what constitutes the soul.

That which perceives (perception) never ends in other words. In some religions that is called the soul, our true essence, in Buddhism, mindstream. Christ Consciousness is attunement with it's nature to some, same as Buddha Nature in Buddhism.

The current Dalai Lama is believed by Buddhists to be able to choose the body into which he is reincarnated. That person, when found, will then become the next Dalai Lama.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succes...4th_Dalai_Lama
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  #397  
Old 24-01-2020, 07:54 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaelyn
One could also say I am the real self, I am the innermost essence.

One could also say I will come back next life as this or that as the leader of Tibetan Buddhism does. I will exist forever!

The Dalai Lama calls death a “change of clothing.” He has taken to musing aloud that he might be reincarnated as a woman and not in Tibet in his next life.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...xt-incarnation

Mindstream (citta-santāna) in Buddhist philosophy is the moment-to-moment continuum, which is also described as continuing from one life to another. Wikipedia

Mindstream and soul is same basic concept, only difference is Buddhism is against some other religions dogma about what constitutes the soul.

That which perceives (perception) never ends in other words. In some religions that is called the soul, our true essence, in Buddhism, mindstream. Christ Consciousness is attunement with it's nature to some, same as Buddha Nature in Buddhism.

The current Dalai Lama is believed by Buddhists to be able to choose the body into which he is reincarnated. That person, when found, will then become the next Dalai Lama.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succes...4th_Dalai_Lama

Actually each of what you mentioned is different as is the realization.
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  #398  
Old 24-01-2020, 07:57 PM
sky sky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
Exactly. :)

What you think you are is the sensations, pleasure, pain, the body or even consciousness.

"clinging to these aggregates as "me" is an illusion". That "me" as an ego being, that these sensations, this form, this awareness is what "I" am.

For example, I have said you are anger but what is anger?

Again, I will give the tantra view which is in line with my own personal experience.

For example, maybe some big dumb jerk keeps calling you names and saying things about you in a forum.

Let's say it upsets you and you feel angry at the way he/she is acting towards you. You are caught up in the mental aspect of it.

As taught by Dzogchen Master Norbu thoughts are flows of energy. What happens is those flows of energy hit upon an obstruction/issue that then causes a mental upset. You attach to that aggregate or you could say those flows which before may have felt like the wind take on form an emotional upset that we are then caught up in.

Now even those flows are dualistic at this point. There is a you and the flows, even resting in those flows as is taught is still at the dualistic stage.

But to make things easy. Those flows are like the wind. The wind is empty, there is nothing there, nothing to grasp on to, to point to but as we all know it can shape things around it or destroy things.

So in my above example you go from emptiness, to motion/energy, to clinging which creates an attachment which results in an emotional response.

It is all the same thing, just degrees of realization.



I can't agree that we are anger, we have anger in us.
If anger is a Keisha how can we be anger....You have agreed the Keisha's are not what we are but what we ' Think ' we are then we can't be anger...
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  #399  
Old 24-01-2020, 07:59 PM
sky sky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaelyn
One could also say I am the real self, I am the innermost essence.

One could also say I will come back next life as this or that as the leader of Tibetan Buddhism does. I will exist forever!

The Dalai Lama calls death a “change of clothing.” He has taken to musing aloud that he might be reincarnated as a woman and not in Tibet in his next life.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...xt-incarnation

Mindstream (citta-santāna) in Buddhist philosophy is the moment-to-moment continuum of perception, which is also described as continuing from one life to another. Wikipedia

Mindstream and soul is same basic concept, only difference is Buddhism is against some other religions dogma about what constitutes the soul.

That which perceives (perception) never ends in other words. In some religions that is called the soul, our true essence, in Buddhism, mindstream. Christ Consciousness is attunement with it's nature to some, same as Buddha Nature in Buddhism.

The current Dalai Lama is believed by Buddhists to be able to choose the body into which he is reincarnated. That person, when found, will then become the next Dalai Lama.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succes...4th_Dalai_Lama


Buddhists don't believe in Reincarnation... but Rebirth.
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  #400  
Old 24-01-2020, 08:07 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
I can't agree that we are anger, we have anger in us.
If anger is a Keisha how can we be anger....You have agreed the Keisha's are not what we are but what we ' Think ' we are then we can't be anger...

The Buddha says we are the aggregates does he not?

Think, feel, etc is all part of the aggregates right?

Also, if it is "in" us then is it not us?

In non-duality what isn't us or an aspect of us?

Again think of the degrees of realization.

You feel energy in your practice right? For those that don't it isn't real, it is fake. We could say the same thing with silence in meditation for instance. With practice we have a deeper realization of our being, of what thoughts, sensations, etc really are.
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