Ex-New Agers claim New Age spirits turn into demons?

Originally Posted by CrystalSong

Organized religions in general put a 'middle man' between the congregation and God. This person tells you how to get in contact with God, or does it for you. It is a belief system that God is out 'there' somewhere and if all 'i's' are dotted and all 't's' crossed God or Jesus or whoever the religion holds as it's central tenets will then come into one's heart and life. That's a very simplified version - but the crux of the matter is the diety is 'out there somewhere'.

The trouble with a religion is that you hand responsibility for your spirituality and wellbeing over to a priest who claims to be nearer god than you. It isn't spirituality to me (which is individual) and puts you on a passive foot. You are told what to believe in and how. The intermediary is regulating your conduct according to a holy book created by the emperor Constantine in the 3rd century if you're Christian. The answers are there. They need no introspection on an adherent's part - in fact, in former times if you weren't ready to accept those answers or didn't obey the priest you could be in dire trouble.

In New Age beliefs, to the best of my knowledge, one comes into the first hand experience of God Within. One is on first hand basis with this God Within.

This veers on gnostic territory. The gnostics who were around in Constantine's time were all but wiped out (along with 8 of the disciples' gospels - well, almost).

Religions have done untold harm to humanity.

Not for me!

♥

[SaturninePluto]

Originally Posted by Baile

You would do well to broaden your self-understanding horizons by reading some Yogic literature. Essentially it says this: that which the seeker is attuned to spiritually (the vibration level), is what the seeker will experience as their reality. In other words, believe in Jesus and you will see Jesus. Believe in Buddha and you will see Buddha. Believe in leprechauns and... you get the picture.

You sound very much like someone who truly wants to believe that what you experienced were demons. So much so that you would take bubble-bursting offense with others here who express differing views. The truth and light is never in the belief itself, but in the manner in which one holds to their beliefs. Clobbering others over the head with one's beliefs out of anger and outrage, isn't truth. That's just fundamentalism. Whereas spirituality is all about the individual's conscious intent and moral action, and nothing more really.

I have no understanding of what yogic literature is. I used to practice the physical and spiritual exercises and poses of yoga, but I have never heard of the terms yogic literature. I apologize for the denseness, I do not often read of current things of the world. So I have really no clue as to what these terms mean, but am interested if you have any links you would like to share.

As to the rest of your response, there was no anger in anything I posted. I stated my perspective on the topic. I stated I do not particularly have fondness of discussion of demonic beings, because no one speaks about such things in an open minded manner. If one tells the religious they witness demons, and bless space due to life experiences the religious condemn them, and consider them evil for circumsyances beyond their own control. While on the other hand the few spiritualist who do know that demonic beings exist on the astral, make it out to be something it is not, and do not take it seriously. While the other majority of spiritualist do not act remotely spiritual when they condemn religious people for being religious, it is not spiritual and it is also a form of condemnation itself- which essentially was what I was truly saying. If we'd all stop quoting snippets for a moment and take into the consideration of the entirety of an individual's words without assumptions of our own.

I am wondering what those who walk the line are to think? Those whom are not religious and who are spiritual, but whom also respect religion for what it was intended to be, and not for what it has become. What of people like myself whom have personal experiences with the demonic, have nowhere to go for help, are scoffed at for it, and whom already know of the existence of such things who do not need any proof, who find it humorous when others like to state their argument that demons do not exist merely because I have never seen them. What of those like me? Whom can't be swayed from personal experience by others opinion and opposing at that because of their own experience that dictates- well I have never seen a demon. Therefore I am under an assumption they stem from our own negativity- I will perpetuate the negativity by blaming myself and others?

I suppose the answer to that is that my perspective simply isn't welcome, because it is different.

How is that spiritual?

Thank you for the suggestion in regards to yogic literature.

I will look into it.

Namaste.

Originally Posted by SaturninePluto

I am wondering what those who walk the line are to think? Those whom are not religious and who are spiritual, but whom also respect religion for what it was intended to be, and not for what it has become. What of people like myself whom have personal experiences with the demonic, have nowhere to go for help, are scoffed at for it, and whom already know of the existence of such things who do not need any proof, who find it humorous when others like to state their argument that demons do not exist merely because I have never seen them. What of those like me? Whom can't be swayed from personal experience by others opinion and opposing at that because of their own experience that dictates- well I have never seen a demon. Therefore I am under an assumption they stem from our own negativity- I will perpetuate the negativity by blaming myself and others?

I suspect it's because of religion. People were trained in not thinking spiritually for themselves. Although religion has lost much of its power (with Christedom at least) its personal laxity remains as most people preoccupy themselves with materialism. So their spiritual thinking is probably dominated more by Hollywood and politics that tell them what they should believe. I suppose more people believe in angels because angels are built into the economy - like images of Jesus nailed to a cross which was highly unlikely - the cross symbolises something a little deeper but was purloined by the Roman church.



♥

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

I suppose more people believe in angels because angels are built into the economy - like images of Jesus nailed to a cross which was highly unlikely

Bolded part: such a great observation and even greater line lol. Awareness is understanding the construction of one's belief processes. And not just the contents of their belief constructs. But the manner in which they've been subliminally and overtly manipulated into choosing those belief constructs.

[CrystalSong]

....and then there's this weird side effect in the Universe which seems to indicate that whatever we believe we bring into existence - at least into our own experience.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by CrystalSong

....and then there's this weird side effect in the Universe which seems to indicate that whatever we believe we bring into existence - at least into our own experience.

Goethe described that process best, easy to understand, nothing weird or spooky about it, and no belief-specific path required: Until one is committed...

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/1465...-the-chance-to

[AstralProjectee]

It's all in their head. Beliefs create these types of things. I remember reading how someone saw a vision of some demonic being growing tentacles over people that were meditating. This is utter nonsense, even if they did actually see this in a vision that doesn't mean that it actually objectively happened. The belief alone is enough to make someone see that in there vision. Visions and dreams are highly influenced by beliefs. Overall belief can create all kinds of things that self-fulfill that belief. Proceed cautiously.

[IFeelFree]

Originally Posted by lanm1192

... where a New Ager finds Christianity, then the angels and such they worked with turn into demons that torment them for a period until their god finds the grace to drive the demons away.

Don't discount the role of religious indoctrination. The person is told by Christians that the beings he "worked with" were demons, and so that's what they become for him. The mind is capable of limitless delusions.

The aim of true spirituality is to go beyond the mind. This is easy, but if you don't understand the mind and how to transcend it, it appears difficult. The key is to stop identifying with things that you are not. When you dis-identify yourself with what you are not, the mind becomes empty and still. This is the
"peace that passes understanding". To quote Buddhist text "Self Liberation through Seeing with Naked Awareness":

...in the present moment, when (your mind) remains in its own condition without constructing anything,
awareness, at that moment, in itself is quite ordinary.
And when you look into yourself in this way nakedly (without any discursive thoughts),
Since there is only this pure observing, there will be found a lucid clarity without anyone being there who is the observer;
only a naked manifest awareness is present.
(This awareness) is empty and immaculately pure, not being created by anything whatsoever.
It is authentic and unadulterated, without any duality of clarity and emptiness.
It is not permanent and yet it is not created by anything.
However, it is not a mere nothingness or something annihilated because it is lucid and present.
It does not exist as a single entity because it is present and clear in terms of being many.
(On the other hand) it is not created as a multiplicity of things because it is inseparable and of a single flavor.
This inherent self-awareness does not derive from anything outside itself.
This is the real introduction to the actual condition of things.

[Jack of Spades]

This is a very interesting thread. I've read about these ones too, although I suspect that Christian publishers might behind the scenes skip the stories that say the opposite and publish only the orthodox experiences that label everything except Christian-approved experiences as evil demons ;)

I had almost the opposite experience actually, in my early 20's. My demon appeared to me as Christian God, almost drove me crazy with fear...

Only after significant shift in my paradigm towards spiritual life, I learnt to rely on my inner spiritual impression of what God is about, instead of sticking to the Bible verses as authoritative messages, and due to this, I was able to realize what was going on and find a way to get rid of it. It took years and all of this time I was unaware of what it actually was about, but still, amazingly landed in the right direction, I guess I was guided by God's voice, without knowing which way is up, which way is down while in the process.

It's kinda long story to tell in all of it's details, so I summed it up but yeah, my demon was a very biblical one, quoting Bible like a well-read priest and all. It works the other way around too...

[Avadar]

Hi Necromancer!

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

From a very young age, I had visions of Shiva, before I even believed in Shiva, in fact.

The first time I saw an image of Shiva, I went into a deep trance. It was something way beyond the mind and through the experience, I came to understand that Shiva was my Ishta Devata (personal Divinity).

My heart just knew that Shiva was God, but God wasn't limited to just being Shiva. God was 'out there' and God was 'in here' and God was just freaking everywhere!

This has been with me all my life and I am not saying other paths are wrong or whatever, but the way I make the connection to the 'Divinity within' is through Shiva.

I ended up embracing Hinduism...a religion...because of this experience, even though I realised that Shiva has nothing to do with Hinduism really...I could choose not to be a Hindu and still love/worship Shiva, but at the time, I felt like I needed a 'foundation' or a 'base'...sort of a framework or a nice box to put it all in.

Maybe I am just an anomaly to the way others perceive the whole 'go between' deal.

You are not an anomaly, it happens all the time.

As a spiritual medium of many years who specializes in discarnate sociology, I can offer a discarnate sociological perspective about this.

Before your most recent birth you were a member of a fourth plane, yellow-energy Hindu discarnate community or Hindu Group Entity that often projected the god-icon Shiva as their trademark.

So when you entered this life it was only a matter of time before they gave you a telepathic call, a vision of Shiva, and you consequently embraced that once more, just as you did in the past.

It reasons that in your last incarnation you most likely embraced the Hindu faith.

On a related note, I used to know a man, a monk at Satchidananda Ashram-Yogaville, who believed that he was the reincarnation of Ramakrishna (sic). Then my Guides confirmed that that was indeed the case. I met him in the early 1990's. His name at the ashram was Gurudas Natarajan. After he left the ashram, he changed his name to Ishtan Natarajan. I recall a point that he made to me at his trailer at the ashram: that I was the only person he has ever met who could channel the same Hindu spirits - who often liked to project the god-icon Ganesh - that he did.

Before my incarnation in ancient Greece and then Macedonia, I likely had a number of incarnations as a Hindu back in ancient India. Hinduism (and the god-icons thereof) and I go way back.

Cheers!