Vishnu and Mahesh

Vishnu is all-pervading. What this means is that he is ever-present, throughout all time and space, sustaining all of nature. In this, Vishnu's immanence consists in his occupying a much more intimate relationship with time and creation than is Shiva's - the grand annihilator. This is not to say Vishnu is not transcendent. He is transcendent in that within him the principle of space and time has its condition, whereas Shiva is fully transcendent in his aspect.

One may in this regard paint the situation as a triangle. The top corner sees Shiva, calm and absolute, as presiding over all of nature and passing beyond it, into the fullness of nameless eternity. On the bottom lies Vishnu, the all-pervading purusha, stretching infinitely over all creation and containing it: all times and all localities lying within his compass. This is hardly to say Vishnu is not also nameless and transcendent, however. For what does it mean for the one substance, Hari, to be extended over all creation, to be simultaneously omniscient and purely cognizant of all things, if not to delve into the utmost transcendence?

In point of fact, both Vishnu and Shiva are one. How can they be separate? It is not merely in terms of what is apparent. Vishnu and Shiva are indeed distinct personae of Ishvara. Their oneness consists in their absolute character. How is this jarring contradiction to be resolved?

One requires a higher logic. One that takes into account the paradoxical nature of time and amends it. It is then seen that God can be more than one, in degree though not in kind, by virtue of his bearing a relationship to time differently. Shiva lies above time, whereas Vishnu possesses it. The one is aware of time to such an extent that he surpasses it completely. The second is as acutely aware as the former, but he prefers to strive within it and accomplish something out of time. The latter attempts to work and suffer in the context of the created order, to grow in loving ambition and orgiastic evolutes, to which Mahesh can in no wise sanction for his own discrete person. This endeavor is reserved for Narayana, the true indwelling "Man" in each of us, as he learns and suffers with us the pangs and groans of the whole created order yet remaining, inconceivably, ever the Master and eternally wise Counsellor, in his own infinite and ever-Supreme Moment.

Sri Sri Hari Hara Ki Jai!

[peteyzen]

Very true.
ultimately there is no division. shiva krishna brahma are one.
and so are we, our right is to experience this and return home.
never forget the goal

I think that to say that all is one is an extreme view. Krishna, Shiva and Brahma are one but they are also different. We are one but we are also different. In the Gita Krishna says "Never was there a time that I did not exist nor you nor all these kings nor in the future will any of us cease to be." He is affirming his own individuality as well as that of the jivas. He also affirms that He is source of all spiritual and material worlds.

Truthfully,

[peteyzen]

I see it differently, he is saying here that we all have existed forever and as god we existed before time and will never cease to exist in time or outside of it. He is, to me, in fact affirming our one ness.

If we are God then how is that we are being dominated by over-powered by illusion. How is that we are suffering? How is that we are being forced to get old, get diseases and die. What kind of God are we? The suffering god.

Originally Posted by I-Ching

If we are God then how is that we are being dominated by over-powered by illusion. How is that we are suffering? How is that we are being forced to get old, get diseases and die. What kind of God are we? The suffering god.

This is a difficult question indeed, but still far from unanswerable I think. First, you need to grant we don't know a whole lot about the ontology of God, nature or even ourselves. Things like time and perception probably play a crucial role here, and should not be treated lightly.

Secondly, I don't think your later question grapples sufficiently with the power and sovereignty of God. God cannot suffer? Well, on some level he cannot. He is impassable and no evil can ever defile his being. On the other hand, God does periodically come down according to the shastras as an avatara. In that, God's leela provides him the basis to act in like manner to other creatures who are "not God." Perhaps in like manner we each share a mystical union with God that requires a higher logic to understand properly.

[peteyzen]

I ching, we are suffering because we are not in our right place, our true nature is not this body, it is the spark that animates it. we created this illusion so we could come here and play for a while, trying out different experiences in different lives. reincarnation and karma help to explain why we suffer and grow old.

Originally Posted by peteyzen

we created this illusion so we could come here and play for a while

So your idea is that we were God a we created a place were we would suffer from old age, desease and death ... so that we could play. Well the material world doesn't sound like a very fun playground. Your idea of God is that not only does He put Himself in suffering condition but he is also stupid!