Robert Adams

Originally Posted by iamthat

The mind is a limited vehicle for consciousness.

What other options are there?

Originally Posted by God-Like

Hey Green ..

I don’t personally like to use the word reference of consciousness but what you are (itself) in the same vein as what you say here is inline with what I have been saying . What you are or ‘pure being’ as some have described has no identity, no associations, no attachments and this is what I am emphasising in regards to beyond mind and beyond self .

Hey there Daz

The way it makes sense to me is that we are conscious and there is what we are conscious of, and consciousness seems to have 'layers' because every time I become consciousness itself there's something beyond that I become conscious of.

Association, identity/identifying and reflection are all happening in the brain/mind. True Identity and False Identity have been made up by the mind that seeks Spiritual superiority and not understanding. For those who are truly seeking understanding of how the ego influences Spirituality, this is it. What people identify with or not is psychoanalysis and not Spirituality, and what they don't identify with as far as their own cognitive processes is dissociation - which is not Spiritual but a personality disorder.

Identity - from a Jungian perspective - is ego and identity in Spirituality is anything anyone wants it to be. For some that may well be understanding but for others it seems more like agenda and so-called "Spiritual ego." If you're going to battle, Daz, be sure you know what you're fighting against. So-called "True Identity" seems to be nothing more than dissociation and the question there is "What do I not like about myself?"

Something that might interest you. Narcissists are always right and they'll defend their position of superior high ground no matter what, no matter how tenuous and nonsensical their arguments become. They also tend not to become conscious that their arguments are no longer rational.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Tara5

What does the word True identity mean to you?

What does the word False identity mean to you?

What does reflection mean? Whose image is reflected? How does reflection happen? Where does reflection occur? kindly elaborate....

You see here Tara, your answer/reply to me the other day regarding my unanswered questions was ‘’all these questions are coming from the mind...and the mind can never understand No-mind.”

Now you are asking me a bunch of mindful questions lol, you can’t make it up .

This is what I have been speaking about regarding certain teaching becoming self defeating and negating .

It’s like your blinkers are on and you don’t see the contradictions in this line of philosophy .

You were inferring to the true identity and something beyond while not even admitting or explaining how it is attained of the mind in order to say what is false of the mind .

There is utter confusion because all you have done is take onboard someones teachings who says not to react to the mind-body-world and does the opposite lol .

To go around teaching and getting married unidentified as said isn’t correct or true and you haven’t addressed how it’s even possible to do .

I have asked several people several times and the questions are ignored .

This should tell you something about the teachings you follow because these teachings are not actually lived .. not by Robert and not by you or the other forum members .

So one would have to ask themselves why is there the denial and the attachment to such a teacher and to such teachings .

This is unfortunately the irony in these teachings at times because one preaches non attachments and non identities and such likes and ends expressing the opposites .

In regards to your question regarding a True and a false identity, I don’t see it in that way .

There is what you are of the mind that encompasses what you are in a million ways, shapes and forms .

If you integrate Self or what you are as being everything that is, then everything is what you are and you can identify oneself with all that or not .

To say for examples sake that I am is pure awareness or pure consciousness as a true identity is a mind trap that divides rather than unites .

This is another aspect of teachings that are one-sided and not all encompassing .

If you had realised what you are you would know that there is no thought of I am this or that as a true or false identity .

All these discernments and conclusions derive through mind and what you and other’s are doing is limiting the mind and then using the mind to say what is true .

It’s so bonkers to do that and you haven’t even addressed this ..

This is what happens when peeps invest heavily into something because the ego won't let them admit the obvious .


x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Hey there Daz

The way it makes sense to me is that we are conscious and there is what we are conscious of, and consciousness seems to have 'layers' because every time I become consciousness itself there's something beyond that I become conscious of.

Association, identity/identifying and reflection are all happening in the brain/mind. True Identity and False Identity have been made up by the mind that seeks Spiritual superiority and not understanding. For those who are truly seeking understanding of how the ego influences Spirituality, this is it. What people identify with or not is psychoanalysis and not Spirituality, and what they don't identify with as far as their own cognitive processes is dissociation - which is not Spiritual but a personality disorder.

Identity - from a Jungian perspective - is ego and identity in Spirituality is anything anyone wants it to be. For some that may well be understanding but for others it seems more like agenda and so-called "Spiritual ego." If you're going to battle, Daz, be sure you know what you're fighting against. So-called "True Identity" seems to be nothing more than dissociation and the question there is "What do I not like about myself?"

Something that might interest you. Narcissists are always right and they'll defend their position of superior high ground no matter what, no matter how tenuous and nonsensical their arguments become. They also tend not to become conscious that their arguments are no longer rational.

Hey G Man

For sure .. layer cakes are popular because there are seemingly always another layer until one transcends them and at this point there is no self to know of them lol .

I totally agree in regards to where identity stems from and true and false identities are just an extension of identity . This is why you can’t have a non identified spiritual teacher floating around using the gents toilets, getting married to females and naming their children mark and Lucy lol .

It’s so bonkers it’s laughable, but on a serious note there is a danger here if peeps actually believe in their teachers ..

It’s a mind mash of brainwashing, but each to their own journey, it took my step dads mother 60years to admit the brainwashing behind her bible teachings / religion .

Al serves a purpose in the grand scheme of things .

What I see happening often in these types of chats is that no one wants to listen to anything that goes against the grain of their beloved teachings .. and can’t even come up with answers to questions that point out the contradictions ..

This in itself should start the internal alarm bells ringing but even alarm bells can fall on deaf ears ,

This I believe falls in line with what you said in your last few lines .

I have over the years had the most ridiculous conversations with peeps as you describe and peeps will continue to move the goal posts to avoid answering straightforward questions . This has been apparent over the past few days .


x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by JosephineBloggs

I think some find the SF ignore member option useful. As this saves having to deal with and face the questions too.

Hey J.B.

Just to be clear here, I don’t look upon my expression as being argumentative, I have no problem with anyone here engaging with me in this thread . I am just a straight talking guy and I have no intention of putting anyone on ignore, if peeps don’t want to answer my questions or cannot answer them, then that’s fine, I am more than used to it, but I find it a bit odd for peeps to engage with me and totally ignore what I have said lol .

I would rather there be no conversation at all than to be be ignored in these ways .

My questions are straightforward and I give reasons for why I ask them and explain their relevance .


x daz x

Originally Posted by God-Like

Hey G Man

For sure .. layer cakes are popular because there are seemingly always another layer until one transcends them and at this point there is no self to know of them lol .

Hi Daz, me old fruit

This is the way things are and sometimes going against them isn't the best solution. Yes it does serve a purpose in the grand scheme of things, it shows us that Spirituality is still driven by human nature after all, and that it doesn't vanish when the labels are applied. People identify with being Spiritual and make the associations according to what being Spiritual means to them personally - otherwise they wouldn't be Spiritual. 'Identification' is another of those words that are taken from elsewhere and 'imported' into Spirituality, then redefined for the sake of agenda. Another words from the same 'stable' is 'ego, and it's the ego that creates the identities - 'true' or 'false' - or thinks it is beyond the identification with the ego. Being beyond identification is the ego in anyone's definition.

Often adherence with the ideology and being right is more important than common sense.

[Tara5]

Originally Posted by God-Like

You see here Tara, your answer/reply to me the other day regarding my unanswered questions was ‘’all these questions are coming from the mind...and the mind can never understand No-mind.”

Now you are asking me a bunch of mindful questions lol, you can’t make it up

.

Those are the No-mind questions.......the real questions....the existential questions....The mind can't understand these questions...And it's okay if you don't have all the answers.

This is what I have been speaking about regarding certain teaching becoming self defeating and negating .

You are negating SOMEONE's teachings without even READING them.

you know nothing about Robert Adams, about his life, about his journey, about his teachings - absolutely nothing yet you judge him with all your assumptions...WOW!

It’s like your blinkers are on and you don’t see the contradictions in this line of philosophy .

You were inferring to the true identity and something beyond while not even admitting or explaining how it is attained of the mind in order to say what is false of the mind .

There is utter confusion because all you have done is take onboard someones teachings who says not to react to the mind-body-world and does the opposite lol .

To go around teaching and getting married unidentified as said isn’t correct or true and you haven’t addressed how it’s even possible to do .

I've already answered this question (marriage) a thousand times...asking the same question over, and over, and over again - won't get us anywhere...

I have asked several people several times and the questions are ignored .

For a change, ask yourself - I'm ignoring the answers?

This should tell you something about the teachings you follow because these teachings are not actually lived .. not by Robert and not by you or the other forum members .

not by Robert......Lol .... how easily we judge others without knowing anything about them...

I rest my case here.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Hi Daz, me old fruit

This is the way things are and sometimes going against them isn't the best solution. Yes it does serve a purpose in the grand scheme of things, it shows us that Spirituality is still driven by human nature after all, and that it doesn't vanish when the labels are applied. People identify with being Spiritual and make the associations according to what being Spiritual means to them personally - otherwise they wouldn't be Spiritual. 'Identification' is another of those words that are taken from elsewhere and 'imported' into Spirituality, then redefined for the sake of agenda. Another words from the same 'stable' is 'ego, and it's the ego that creates the identities - 'true' or 'false' - or thinks it is beyond the identification with the ego. Being beyond identification is the ego in anyone's definition.

Often adherence with the ideology and being right is more important than common sense.

Hey G.S. Me old cherub ;)

I think going against the grain of teachings that are held dear to other’s can be futile on one hand but on the other there needs to be a balance attained . Peeps like us can bring that balance but if it’s digested or heard enough to make a difference only time will tell and at times it can be more about the others that read the posts than the hardcore devotees. It’s just a platform really . As we both know, spirituality and religion can become extremely powerful influences in peeps lives so there does require a balanced perspective or an overall perspective had at some point for everyone .

You have hit the nail on the head about the key words like the ego and identification and what is true and false coming from what they mean on a personal level and this is why niz spoke about there is only a favoured perspective had .. What seemingly happens thou is that certain teachings / teachers speak about the non person and the non doer and associate the truths of all that to that lol .

It’s a form of denial of their own persona and self . All very one sided and odd to be honest, this is why you can get teachers saying the body is addicted to all my desires but my true self isn’t .

So one can supposedly maintain there status as a super duper guru while being addicted because they can simply disassociate their true or real self from them .

I used to ask such peeps where is this real self when you are munching on chocolate cake? lol .

You see there are plenty of spiritual folks that don’t succumb to their desires and weaknesses lol that don’t teach spirituality ..


x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Tara5

.

Those are the No-mind questions.......the real questions....the existential questions....The mind can't understand these questions...And it's okay if you don't have all the answers.


You are negating SOMEONE's teachings without even READING them.

you know nothing about Robert Adams, about his life, about his journey, about his teachings - absolutely nothing yet you judge him with all your assumptions...WOW!



I've already answered this question (marriage) a thousand times...asking the same question over, and over, and over again - won't get us anywhere...


For a change, ask yourself - I'm ignoring the answers?



not by Robert......Lol .... how easily we judge others without knowing anything about them...

I rest my case here.

I haven’t got a clue on what you are talking about . I ask you a bunch of questions and you say that the questions are coming from mind and then you ask me questions that are equally from mind . It’s self defeating .

I have said to you that beyond self and mind there are no thoughts of self or the world or what is identified as a true or false identification . I have asked you how it’s possible to attain the knowings of identification from beyond . Your just going round in circles not understanding this .

Your right I don’t know much about Robert Adams life only what quotes I have responded to on this thread . I don’t need to know his life to make comment on what I have . I know what identification is and I know that the real identification comes from mind . I know that you can’t get married unidentified . You say you have answered my questions a thousand times but you haven’t you have just changed the goal posts like unseeking seeker did . Identification is identification . Identification doesn’t in itself refer to a level of an attachment or to a level trueness .

You haven’t answered me or addressed how it’s possible to be unidentified while playing character roles believing that being a father is a false identity and and being a lover is false identity .

I have spoken about the need for comparisons of the mind because it’s all mind . The real identity and the false identity is identified lol . It’s that simple . All you have said is that an enlightened peep can still get married .

This getting married as an enlightened one doesn’t bypass being self identified . Going for a pee in the gents doesn’t bypass the self identified . Saying that the human male form is false is self identifying .

You don’t seem to understand any of what I am saying . You are not explaining how it’s possible to have these identifications while being unidentified .

Responding to the body-mind is exactly what Robert and other’s do but when they speak about dividing the false self personality with a true self then it’s easy to pass off the mind-body-self persona as something that can be manipulated in a way that suits their teachings . This is why as said to G.S. that guru types can pass off their addictions to a lower self mind-body while maintaining their guru status .


x daz x

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by God-Like

I know what identification is and I know that the real identification comes from mind .

Ah, daz, you really haven't grasped it.

Peace