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21-08-2018, 03:24 AM
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Deactivated Account
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: in my truck. anywhere usa
Posts: 8,524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by django
The author chose his exact words for a reason, he could have said "Like an exquisite elixir dripping down like sweet nectar to fill the entire body." But he didn't. He said "Violent and rapid spread of poison."
You can't think of any reason why he would have chosen these exact words?
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i think your reading into it to much. its a massive shift. in every massive shift it is violent. doesn't necessarily mean what your thinking. could he of mean years of disturbances as it goes on until the shift is complete in the case he is speaking of? maybe. but not likely. in any case it makes no difference. people meditate for there whole lives sometimes. good things rarely come without a fuss.
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21-08-2018, 03:28 AM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
Namaste.
I don't know much about this..All I know is through my own teachings and lived experience.
When Kechari Mudra is first performed, the secretion is very bitter, bile and toxic. It is like a poison to the system, but one must go through the "purge" before the cleansing and detoxification takes place that leads to higher levels of consciousness...It is a transmutation of energies from the gross to the more subtle vibrations.
It is said that at the churning of the ocean of milk (the upheval of our own altered states of being) by the positive and negative energies or forces, a deadly poison is produced and Siva drinks this, giving him a blue throat...after that, the nectar of Bliss...The Amrita or soma is produced. This is all metaphorical of course, but the implications are enormous.
Siva also took earthly form as the guru, Dakshinamurthy..The jagadguru...who instructed the Sapta Rishis and the four Kumaras...without speaking a single word...Just using the Chin Mudra...Just being in the presence of Dakshinamurthy...gazing into his eyes and bringing ones breath in time with that of the master's breath was enough to ensure Samadhi and liberation.
Unfortunately for many of us, having access to an "enlightened Guru" is totally off the table for this lifetime... especially when one lives in a remote location of a remote county and then, of course, there's always the thing about how does one know if a Guru is enlightened or not? and if they are Siva, why isn't everything else Siva as well?
Suffice to say, I have my own "inner guru" which, if only I was to obey and not ignore due to my ego wishing to dominate or control every aspect of my life, I would be in a much better position than I am currently in.
Aum Namah Shivaya
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Yes, I agree this is the fuller sense of the 'violent poison' concept, I would just like to point out that this is one systems method that brings a particular outcome. Not all methods require a violent initial stage, and not all methods promote bliss as the desired outcome.
If bliss appeals to someone, and they're willing to pay the price, good luck to them, as long as they can find their real guru as you say. But real gurus are not that hard to find on the internet are they? Both Jonesboy and running have their favourite enlightened gurus online, they should be pretty easy to access nowadays.
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21-08-2018, 03:33 AM
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Deactivated Account
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: in my truck. anywhere usa
Posts: 8,524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
Namaste.
I don't know much about this..All I know is through my own teachings and lived experience.
When Kechari Mudra is first performed, the secretion is very bitter, bile and toxic. It is like a poison to the system, but one must go through the "purge" before the cleansing and detoxification takes place that leads to higher levels of consciousness...It is a transmutation of energies from the gross to the more subtle vibrations.
It is said that at the churning of the ocean of milk (the upheval of our own altered states of being) by the positive and negative energies or forces, a deadly poison is produced and Siva drinks this, giving him a blue throat...after that, the nectar of Bliss...The Amrita or soma is produced. This is all metaphorical of course, but the implications are enormous.
Siva also took earthly form as the guru, Dakshinamurthy..The jagadguru...who instructed the Sapta Rishis and the four Kumaras...without speaking a single word...Just using the Chin Mudra...Just being in the presence of Dakshinamurthy...gazing into his eyes and bringing ones breath in time with that of the master's breath was enough to ensure Samadhi and liberation.
Unfortunately for many of us, having access to an "enlightened Guru" is totally off the table for this lifetime... especially when one lives in a remote location of a remote county and then, of course, there's always the thing about how does one know if a Guru is enlightened or not? and if they are Siva, why isn't everything else Siva as well?
Suffice to say, I have my own "inner guru" which, if only I was to obey and not ignore due to my ego wishing to dominate or control every aspect of my life, I would be in a much better position than I am currently in.
Aum Namah Shivaya
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yes. you have to drink, eat, through it for it to become you as bliss. you literaly taste and feel it. everything is sifted through tell it all becomes it. that has been my experince. for me it was pleasant generally speaking. to tbis day im still eating and drinking through it. it is good.
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21-08-2018, 03:42 AM
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Deactivated Account
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: in my truck. anywhere usa
Posts: 8,524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by django
Yes, I agree this is the fuller sense of the 'violent poison' concept, I would just like to point out that this is one systems method that brings a particular outcome. Not all methods require a violent initial stage, and not all methods promote bliss as the desired outcome.
If bliss appeals to someone, and they're willing to pay the price, good luck to them, as long as they can find their real guru as you say. But real gurus are not that hard to find on the internet are they? Both Jonesboy and running have their favourite enlightened gurus online, they should be pretty easy to access nowadays.
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i don't personally have one. but have meditated with a couple in the past that made a difference for me. they are on the Internet.
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21-08-2018, 03:10 PM
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Master
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by running
he was referring to its power. speed and ability to change the make up of the system.
the last sentence explains the experience.
"He thus becomes one with his Master in the unifying bliss of universal
consciousness and so, whether his eyes are open or closed, continues to
enjoy the same state constantly."
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That is excellent.
Last edited by jonesboy : 21-08-2018 at 05:58 PM.
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21-08-2018, 03:15 PM
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Master
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by django
Yes, I agree this is the fuller sense of the 'violent poison' concept, I would just like to point out that this is one systems method that brings a particular outcome. Not all methods require a violent initial stage, and not all methods promote bliss as the desired outcome.
If bliss appeals to someone, and they're willing to pay the price, good luck to them, as long as they can find their real guru as you say. But real gurus are not that hard to find on the internet are they? Both Jonesboy and running have their favourite enlightened gurus online, they should be pretty easy to access nowadays.
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Not sure why you are attacking me.
I am sharing how a guru works from a very rich tradition. Yes it is the same thing I have experienced and have helped others experience.
Yes, bliss, silence, and ecstasy are all part of the path. They are signposts. The true results is your daily life, the changes within that is noticed from others. That then leads others to inquire and to begin to change the suffering within.
If you are happy with your practice, feel like you have solid methods of dealing with the ups and downs in life then I am happy for you. No, reason to attack those who have founds paths that fit them as well.
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21-08-2018, 05:57 PM
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Master
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,732
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Quote:
Those who are purified by this supremely real consciousness firmly
affirmed within them become well established on the path of the absolute
(anurrara) and are not bound by practice.
Not grounded in anything, this [Light] is not energy, the Great
Goddess; nor is it God, the power-holder, because it is not the foundation
of anything. It is not an object of meditation because there is none who
meditates, nor is it he who meditates because there is nothing to meditate
on. It is not an object of worship because there is none to worship it, nor
is it the worshipper because there is nothing to worship. This all pervasive
[reality] is not Mantra, not that which is expressed by Mantra,
nor he who utters it. This [reality], the Great God (maheSvara), is not
initiation, the initiator or the initiated.
In this way, even supreme knowledge, divested of all means, rests in
the power of bliss said to be [the presence] of the absolute here [in every
moment of experience].
When the Master utters [his instructions] with words intent on the
thoughtless, [the disciple] is liberated there and then, and all that remains
[of his former state] is the machine [of the body].
So gracious is he that, by transferring his own nature to those whose
consciousness is pure, they became one with him at his [mere] sight.
When Siva, Who is everywhere present, is known just once through
the firm insight born of right knowledge (pramdya), the scripture and the
Master's words, no means [to realization] serves any purpose and even
contemplation (bhdvanr) [is of no further use].
At the end of countless rebirths, the yogi's [psycho-physical] activity
[which issues from ignorance] is suddenly interrupted by the recognition
of his own transcendent nature, full of a novel and supreme bliss. He is
like one struck with awe and in this attitude of astonishment (vismayamudri)
achieves the Great Expansion [of consciousness] (mahdvikisa).
Thus he, the best of yogis, whose true nature has been revealed [to him] is
well established [at the highest level of consciousness], which he grasps
firmly and his hold upon it never slackens. Thus he is no longer subject to
profane existence (Bravyrli), the abhorrent and continuing round of birth
and death, which inspires fear in all living beings, because its cause, his
own impurity, no longer exists.
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Below is the commentary, or part of it with regard to the above taken from the 1st post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
Significantly, the last Stanza of the second
section ends with the declaration that 'this is the initiation that bestows
Siva's true nature'. In other words, this realisation, attained through the
expanding consciousness of contemplation with the eyes open, initiates the
yogi into the liberated state, which is identification with Siva whose body
is the universe.
In order to attain this expanded state of liberated consciousness, the
yogi must find a spiritual guide because the Master (guru) is the means to
realisation.23 The Master is for his disciple Siva Himself for it is he who
through his initiation, teaching and grace, reveals the secret power of
spiritual discipline. Instructing in the purport of scripture he does more
than simply explain its meaning: he transmits the realisation it can bestow.
The Master is at one with Siva's divine power through which he enlightens
his disciple. It is this power that matters and makes the Master a true
spiritual guide,25 just as it was this same power that led the disciple to him
in his quest for the path that leads to the tranquility that can only be found
'in the abode beyond mind'.26 The Master is the ferry that transports the
disciple over the ocean of thought if, that is, the disciple is ready. The
disciple must be 'awake' (prabuddha), attending carefully to the pulse of
consciousness. This alert state of wakefulness is at once the keen sensitivity
of insight as well as the receptivity of one who has no other goal to pursue
except enlightenment.
.....
When such a disciple sits before his Master, all he has to do is to gaze
at him and be aware of his elevated state to feel the fragrance (vdsand) of
the Master's transcendental consciousness extending spontaneously
within him. Abhinava explains:
So gracious is he that, by transferring his own nature to those whose
consciousness is pure, they became one with him at his [mere] sight.
If the disciple does not possess the strength of awareness to allow the
Master to infuse this consciousness into him directly in this way while his
eyes are open, he is instructed to close them. The Master then bestows
upon him a vision of former perfected yogis (siddha) while the disciple is
in a state of contemplation with his eyes closed (nimilanasamddhi).
Through the vision of these perfected yogis (siddhadarSana)94 he
recognises their level of consciousness and so experiences it within himself.
The disciple's consciousness thus suddenly expands within him like the
violent and rapid spread of poison through the body (bhujarigagaralavat).
He thus becomes one with his Master in the unifying bliss of universal
consciousness and so, whether his eyes are open or closed, continues to
enjoy the same state constantly.
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23-08-2018, 07:18 AM
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Master
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 10,861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by django
Yes, I agree this is the fuller sense of the 'violent poison' concept, I would just like to point out that this is one systems method that brings a particular outcome. Not all methods require a violent initial stage, and not all methods promote bliss as the desired outcome.
If bliss appeals to someone, and they're willing to pay the price, good luck to them, as long as they can find their real guru as you say. But real gurus are not that hard to find on the internet are they? Both Jonesboy and running have their favourite enlightened gurus online, they should be pretty easy to access nowadays.
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Namaste.
I do note a certain degree of sarcasm in that post, but in a way I agree with you.
Maybe it is just me, but I don't understand how a "virtual Guru" is supposed to work. How much "Shaktipat" can be transmitted online anyway? Wouldn't it be akin to giving a "hug emoji" over the real thing? Doesn't being in the presence of a Master require being in the actual presence of a Master? or am I missing something here?
No disrespect is intended to anybody by this, but I simply do not understand.
As for finding a Guru online, I don't know...There are a lot of teachers that I really like...that I resonate with...Igor Kufayev, Craig Holliday, Peter Marchand, Sadguru etc, but I cannot say that any of them does it for me on a deep soul level...enough to choose them as my Guru.
I have also had great Gurus in the past, including Swami Satyananda, Swami Chidananda and Harish Johari...but nothing contemporary really compares to them...and if I had a choice...All of the Gurus I would have chosen died about 500 years ago... whether I observe death as being only a temporary inconvenience remains to be seen.
Aum Namah Shivaya
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24-08-2018, 02:03 AM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
Namaste.
I do note a certain degree of sarcasm in that post, but in a way I agree with you.
Maybe it is just me, but I don't understand how a "virtual Guru" is supposed to work. How much "Shaktipat" can be transmitted online anyway? Wouldn't it be akin to giving a "hug emoji" over the real thing? Doesn't being in the presence of a Master require being in the actual presence of a Master? or am I missing something here?
No disrespect is intended to anybody by this, but I simply do not understand.
As for finding a Guru online, I don't know...There are a lot of teachers that I really like...that I resonate with...Igor Kufayev, Craig Holliday, Peter Marchand, Sadguru etc, but I cannot say that any of them does it for me on a deep soul level...enough to choose them as my Guru.
I have also had great Gurus in the past, including Swami Satyananda, Swami Chidananda and Harish Johari...but nothing contemporary really compares to them...and if I had a choice...All of the Gurus I would have chosen died about 500 years ago... whether I observe death as being only a temporary inconvenience remains to be seen.
Aum Namah Shivaya
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Surrender your senses into your own mind,
not into the mind of another person.
Surrender your mind into your own intelligence,
not to a man, woman, or institution.
Surrender your intelligence into pure consciousness,
not to the consciousness of another human.
Surrender everything you think you are into the
pure inner light of guru within,
not a self-proclaimed guru without.
(Swami Jnaneshvara)
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24-08-2018, 01:33 PM
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Master
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by django
Surrender your senses into your own mind,
not into the mind of another person.
Surrender your mind into your own intelligence,
not to a man, woman, or institution.
Surrender your intelligence into pure consciousness,
not to the consciousness of another human.
Surrender everything you think you are into the
pure inner light of guru within,
not a self-proclaimed guru without.
(Swami Jnaneshvara)
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This thread is based on Kashmir Shaivisim. Not the Himalayan Tradition.
Also, if a guru can do what is mentioned in the OP is he Self proclaimed or a real guru that is beyond just talk (self proclaimed).
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