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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Judaism

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  #1  
Old 27-06-2011, 06:04 AM
nightowl
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Exodus 22:18 ???

Exodus 22:18

KJV 18Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

ESV 18 "You shall not permit a sorceress to live.

Can someone help me with what the interpretation of this verse means in the Hebrew text? Is there a explanation of what witchcraft, witch, or sorceress, actually encompasses? Is the definition of these word the same as in the Christian Bible? Thank you.

nightowl
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  #2  
Old 27-06-2011, 07:03 AM
mattie
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Words Are Important

Whether one chooses to take this ancient document or any other one literally is a matter of personal choice.

There are many ways in the Bible that women were demonized throughout the entire document. It begins w/ this women are evil theme on page 2 of the KJV (doesn’t waste any time at all!!!) w/ women being responsible for the fall of man w/ creating sin by disobeying God’s orders (Eve & the apple).

This demonizing women isn’t subtle at all. Nor is it confined to the Old Testament. Note that it says ‘sorceress’ & ‘witch’ using terms that specify women. WHY??????? It could have said sorceress & sorcerer & witch & warlock. It doesn’t. It’s very specifically ONLY referring to women. Does this only referring to females only mean that just females were capable of these powers? Of course not.

The demonizing of women & cutting them out of the religious power structure nicely took care of disempowering half of the population. Not a bad move for those whose power was invested in keeping the population disempowered. It also created a rift between women & men.

A nearby verse, KJV, Exodus 21:7- ‘And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.’ Should this be taken literally or is it assumed in 2011 that men don’t have the right to sell their daughters? For those who take the Bible literally, insisting that this is the truth, yet scoff that this verse should be taken literally it would be useful to know what guidelines are employed to ignore some biblical instructions such as this as invalid while accepting others as the absolute TRUTH.

More missive towards women end this document in the New Testament. In referring to 144,000 men ‘having his Father’s name written in their foreheads’ Revelations 14:4. ‘These are they which were not defiled with women, for they are virgins.’ Even worse than men being defiled by having sex w/ women is the concept that the chosen 144,000 will only be men. Once again, WOMEN NEED NOT APPLY.

Further on in Revelations this really crummy view of women continues in Chapter 17. Verse 1, ‘I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great ***** ... .’ Verse 2, ‘With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.’ Verse 5, ‘And upon her forehead was a name written MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.’ (Their caps.) This referring to sins as ‘her’ continues w/ more such references. Even if this is an allegorical ***** reference, it is the running theme throughout this document that women are evil.

Many in organized religion have, to no avail, attempted to convince their religion’s leaders to renounce these dated misogynist references as both the dated attitudes of their times & an obvious deliberate attempt to lock women out of the religious bureaucracy. This shutting women out of the business of religion still predominates in most organized religions thousands of years later even though some of the more progressive religions are beginning to get past this, having women in important positions.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_bibl2.htm

http://bible.cc/exodus/22-18.htm

This exhortation to kill women involved in witchcraft was written at about the same time that the Romans w/ their religious-political structure co-opted the rising Christian religion & extinguished the old Pagan ones & commissioned the Vatican to write their version of the Bible. First Pagan temples & activities were defunded, then their temples razed w/ new Roman ones (Roman Catholic Church) built on them. Pagan books were burned in bonfires. In 381 all nonliteralist (Gnostic) Christian writings were ordered destroyed. Gnostics were ordered to accept RCC Archbishop Cyril or be executed. Charming. On 6/16/391 Emperor Theodosius closed down all of the remaining Pagan temples. A mob destroyed the temple in Alexandria, then the contents of wonderful library in Alexandria.

The Romans used their merged religious-political bureaucracy to continually threaten & terrorize their citizens. They often changed the rules & what was accepted religious practice one day capriciously changed, allowing the emperor to have anyone he wanted to be picked up & executed or tortured. This worked nicely to dispel opposition.

When Emperor Constantine co-opted Christianity to merge it w/ the Roman Empire about 2% of the Empire’s citizens were Christian. By the 3rd century spiritual cults of all kinds had increased, including the very popular Mithras Mysteries. In 304, 17 years prior to co-opting Christianity the Roman Empire declared Mithras, a Persian savior born on December 25 as the “Protector of the Empire,” thus co-opting their Persian rival’s god.

“In 321 Constantine became the first Christian Emperor. Although his motivation was clearly political, not spiritual, many years after the event he claimed that his conversion had come about through a holy vision.”

“Constantine was above all a pragmatist. His Christianity was only prominent when it was politically expedient.”

“After Constantine, the Roman Empire became increasingly Christianized under successive, ever more intolerant, Christian Emperors--that is, apart from a brief spell under Julian (360-3), who tried to reinstate Paganism. ...”

“... the Christian Church remained forever divided against itself, engaging in constant political in-fighting thinly disguised as theological debate. In the authoritarian atmosphere of the times, the losers were excommunicated and their views made anathema. Yet no one was secure. An ‘orthodox’ view today could be ‘heretical’ tomorrow. ...’

Quotes from ‘The Jesus Mysteries,’ Freke & Gandy- Available free online.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/23310573/T...us-a-Pagan-God
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  #3  
Old 27-06-2011, 07:24 AM
Scibat
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Darn you vile women!
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  #4  
Old 27-06-2011, 07:31 AM
mattie
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LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scibat
Darn you vile women!

Yep, we're such troublemakers. Now & then. Time honored role. LOL.

You know, one thing about plucking that pesky apple from the tree- It made a tasty pie!!
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  #5  
Old 27-06-2011, 09:38 AM
Honza Honza is offline
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What does it add up to? Perhaps the bottom line is that Men (those who wrote the bible) fear women.

Fear is the cause of such prejudism. It goes back as far as the writing of the bible!
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The Humility, the Pride and the Humiliation.
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  #6  
Old 27-06-2011, 06:53 PM
Scibat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattie
Yep, we're such troublemakers. Now & then. Time honored role. LOL.

You know, one thing about plucking that pesky apple from the tree- It made a tasty pie!!

Mmm... apple pie... Tasty tasty apple pie.
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  #7  
Old 27-06-2011, 08:58 PM
nightowl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattie
Whether one chooses to take this ancient document or any other one literally is a matter of personal choice...

Whoa mattie, what passion you have...

Hey I asked this question because I was curious what the Jewish view of this topic is or was in comparison to how the Christian Bible interprets it.

It isn't a question condemning anything or any one...it is a curiosity question.

I understand where you are coming from... I specifically used the ESV because I wanted to see if it was translated properly...

nightowl
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  #8  
Old 27-06-2011, 09:10 PM
Gracey
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maybe it means pagans, i really dont know though
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  #9  
Old 27-06-2011, 09:25 PM
RabbiO RabbiO is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattie
This exhortation to kill women involved in witchcraft was written at about the same time that the Romans w/ their religious-political structure co-opted the rising Christian religion & extinguished the old Pagan ones & commissioned the Vatican to write their version of the Bible....

Whatever one may think about the exhortation in Exodus, which at some point I may find time to comment on, the above statement is just plain wrong. The Hebrew text of Exodus was written long before the time of Jesus.

B'shalom,

Peter
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  #10  
Old 27-06-2011, 09:30 PM
nightowl
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Thank you Peter for your reply. I will await a response in the future if you choose to elaborate on the topic.

nightowl
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