A quiet still mind

[naturesflow]

"A quiet still mind can appear/be perceived to be unmoving"

And often judge it as being closed off or not engaged.

Yet I realize now that the mind moving not quiet and still, is unaware of itself when looking into this as being this way.

An open clear mind quiet and still, staying more present with itself, can appear to be unmoving, yet it is moving, just still and quiet and present.

I used to perceive this, in this way with others, until I realized this was not true in the experience of this in myself.

[sky]

Two men were arguing about a flag flapping in the wind.
"It’s the wind that is really moving," stated the first one.
"No, it is the flag that is moving," contended the second.
A Zen master, who happened to be walking by, overheard the debate and interrupted them.
"Neither the flag nor the wind is moving," he said, "It is MIND that moves."


Mind-full-ness is the way to quiet and calm the mind.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by sky123

Two men were arguing about a flag flapping in the wind.
"It’s the wind that is really moving," stated the first one.
"No, it is the flag that is moving," contended the second.
A Zen master, who happened to be walking by, overheard the debate and interrupted them.
"Neither the flag nor the wind is moving," he said, "It is MIND that moves."


Mind-full-ness is the way to quiet and calm the mind.

I've always loved that Zen story. Thanks for reminding us of it !

[H:O:R:A:C:E]

naturesflow, i predict that your state of mind to be,
after reading sky123's contribution, will be of an
increased awareness, and not a return to an older frame
of reference.
there is no spoon.

[jonesboy]

Just as the ocean has waves, and the sun has rays, so the mind’s own radiance is its thoughts and emotions. The ocean has waves, yet the ocean is not particularly disturbed by them. The waves are the very nature of the ocean. Waves will rise, but where do they go? Back into the ocean. And where do the waves come from? The ocean.

In the same manner, thoughts and emotions are the radiance and expression of the very nature of the mind. They rise from the mind, but where do they dissolve? Back into the mind. Whatever rises, do not see it as a particular problem. If you do not impulsively react, if you are only patient, it will once again settle into its essential nature.

When you have this understanding, then rising thoughts only enhance your practice. But when you do not understand what they intrinsically are—the radiance of the nature of your mind—then your thoughts become the seed of confusion. So have a spacious, open, and compassionate attitude toward your thoughts and emotions, because in fact your thoughts are your family, the family of your mind. Before them, as Dudjom Rinpoche used to say: “Be like an old wise man, watching a child play.”

[RyanWind]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

"A quiet still mind can appear/be perceived to be unmoving"

And often judge it as being closed off or not engaged.

Yet I realize now that the mind moving not quiet and still, is unaware of itself when looking into this as being this way.

An open clear mind quiet and still, staying more present with itself, can appear to be unmoving, yet it is moving, just still and quiet and present.

I used to perceive this, in this way with others, until I realized this was not true in the experience of this in myself.

What your post made me think of is if you have a thought... my still mind is this or that, it can't be still. If it was still, there would be no part of yourself observing it or judging it. So really, stillness can never be perceived, only experienced.

The thought occurred to me yesterday that when I am discussing ego there is a major delusion there, because I am imagining ego as a thing separate from myself. What I am in any given moment is determined on where my attention is. If my attention is on memory and thoughts, that's what I am. That's what you are interacting with. If you talk to me or interact with me when my attention is wholly on "ego" that is what I am and that is what you will have a relationship with. That will be what you experience me as being. The idea that ego is some "thing" that exists apart from me it probably wrong. Like how a rainbow does not exist without a "lense" or eye to see it or perceive it. Light waves are only that, waves until eyes translate that into images, colors etc. If nothing on earth had eyes, all that would be here is light waves, no objects would appear as images. It's the same with this concept of an ego. If no consciousness was there to focus the attention on the things we call ego and to identify with them, thoughts and images of "self" it would not exist in any real form. Thoughts do have a physical existence, memory is stored in the brain and has a physical reality, but they are like light waves. Light waves need an eye to turn them into objects and "ego" needs a consciousness to turn it into a presence or being.

In every moment, we have 2 sources of input that is placed before our consciousness like images on a movie screen. #1 is external input from the 5 senses and #2 is input from thoughts. Both are input that seeks to get the attention and focus of our consciousness. Consciousness will always be aware of #1 because that input is there whether we pay attention to it or not. You see, hear, taste, feel, smell....even if you close your eyes, plug your ears etc you will see black and hear silence, feel the chair against your body. So that's evidence the external world exists apart from ourselves. But ego is different as far as perception. If consciousness stops giving it attention, it seems to stop. It ceases to exist as any kind of perception. Ego is like a rainbow, it can only exist as perception because I focus on it. If I was not here to pay attention to it, it would not exist in any perceivable sense. A consciousness is required to animate it, to give it reality, to project it outward though the brain and language. To take a thing that has no consciousness and is there dead like a rock and project it as life. So really we are ego. We create it and project it. It's like words written on a page. What are they without a being to read meaning into them? Stored memories and thoughts and like words on a page. They have no meaning, no life, no power, unless a consciousness animates them.

[naturesflow]

[quote]

Originally Posted by RyanWind

What your post made me think of is if you have a thought... my still mind is this or that, it can't be still. If it was still, there would be no part of yourself observing it or judging it. So really, stillness can never be perceived, only experienced.

Ok.

The thought occurred to me yesterday that when I am discussing ego there is a major delusion there, because I am imagining ego as a thing separate from myself. What I am in any given moment is determined on where my attention is. If my attention is on memory and thoughts, that's what I am. That's what you are interacting with. If you talk to me or interact with me when my attention is wholly on "ego" that is what I am and that is what you will have a relationship with. That will be what you experience me as being. The idea that ego is some "thing" that exists apart from me it probably wrong. Like how a rainbow does not exist without a "lense" or eye to see it or perceive it. Light waves are only that, waves until eyes translate that into images, colors etc. If nothing on earth had eyes, all that would be here is light waves, no objects would appear as images. It's the same with this concept of an ego. If no consciousness was there to focus the attention on the things we call ego and to identify with them, thoughts and images of "self" it would not exist in any real form. Thoughts do have a physical existence, memory is stored in the brain and has a physical reality, but they are like light waves. Light waves need an eye to turn them into objects and "ego" needs a consciousness to turn it into a presence or being.

This is a well thought out and clear for me reading this. Thanks Ryan.

In every moment, we have 2 sources of input that is placed before our consciousness like images on a movie screen. #1 is external input from the 5 senses and #2 is input from thoughts. Both are input that seeks to get the attention and focus of our consciousness. Consciousness will always be aware of #1 because that input is there whether we pay attention to it or not. You see, hear, taste, feel, smell....even if you close your eyes, plug your ears etc you will see black and hear silence, feel the chair against your body. So that's evidence the external world exists apart from ourselves. But ego is different as far as perception. If consciousness stops giving it attention, it seems to stop. It ceases to exist as any kind of perception. Ego is like a rainbow, it can only exist as perception because I focus on it. If I was not here to pay attention to it, it would not exist in any perceivable sense. A consciousness is required to animate it, to give it reality, to project it outward though the brain and language. To take a thing that has no consciousness and is there dead like a rock and project it as life. So really we are ego. We create it and project it. It's like words written on a page. What are they without a being to read meaning into them? Stored memories and thoughts and like words on a page. They have no meaning, no life, no power, unless a consciousness animates them.

I like this too. Again its really clear reading this. Thankyou.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by H:O:R:A:C:E

naturesflow, i predict that your state of mind to be,
after reading sky123's contribution, will be of an
increased awareness, and not a return to an older frame
of reference.
there is no spoon.

But why do I need to build that through Sky's post when I am realizing this myself and now aware of this through the realization of being on both sides of this in my own mind and experience for real? I do like to experience these things first hand, but that is just my way.

(nothing against sky's or your own post by the way, all sharing is valid to me and I take in what I need and listen when I don't need to take in and use, so thankyou for sharing your thoughts about sky's contribution and my state of mind, that you feel will increase after typing this out. Spoon? what spoon? I didn't see one until you bought it into the picture....hehehe)

[H:O:R:A:C:E]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

But why do I need to build that through Sky's post when I am realizing this myself and now aware of this through the realization of being on both sides of this in my own mind and experience for real? I do like to experience these things first hand, but that is just my way.

(nothing against sky's or your own post by the way, all sharing is valid to me and I take in what I need and listen when I don't need to take in and use, so thankyou for sharing your thoughts about sky's contribution and my state of mind, that you feel will increase after typing this out. Spoon? what spoon? I didn't see one until you bought it into the picture....hehehe)

deer tickle fight area ahead:

[Floatsy]

LOL H:O:R:A:C:E you are good, Sir, you are good