The Madness of Nonduality.

[Iamit]

For the nonduality concept to have an impact (resonance), the madness of rejecting the evidence of our own eyes, that the many separate things are in reality merely a manifestation of difference where there is no difference whatsoever, can surprisingly result in the end of the search without any further understanding or experience.

Niz said such an event could be fast (Boom) or slow (lots of practise) and that either way was OK, that one was no better than the other. He seemed to suggest one or the other in discussion with seekers depending on how he saw the character of each

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by Iamit

For the nonduality concept to have an impact (resonance), the madness of rejecting the evidence of our own eyes, that the many separate things are in reality merely a manifestation of difference where there is no difference whatsoever, can surprisingly result in the end of the search without any further understanding or experience.

Niz said such an event could be fast (Boom) or slow (lots of practise) and that either way was OK, that one was no better than the other. He seemed to suggest one or the other in discussion with seekers depending on how he saw the character of each

Niz tried to trigger the fast approach by stating that the seeker was already what was sought (The Supreme). He used this approach with a seeker who had done lots of practise but was in complete despair about progress. He said the despair placed the seeker in a most advantageous position to see clearly that he was already the Supreme.

One could surmise that Niz felt that for some seekers reaching despair with practise was the goal of practise, so far from being unnessary, was an essential part of the process for some to reach a state of despair.

No doubt some seekers are undisiplined types who despair at the very thought of practise without even embarking. Such characters would presumably be ripe for the fast approach and are likely to be attracted to (resonate with) those approaches which assert that one is already the Supreme.

[Unseeking Seeker]

***

We have on the one hand, a reasoned concept of non-duality and on the other, actuality of so knowing, as an unwavering wisdom, breathed moment to moment.

What seems valid, for me at least, is to recognise duality to begin with, being what it is, then, experientially shift to interconnectivity in contemplation & meditation recognising oneness and then to singularity when we vaporise in the bliss of Samadhi. On a personal note, having so experienced all stages, the awareness is as yet flickering. Unstable.

There is no scope in the recognition of what is or appears to be as is, for lower mind or thought to intervene. Brutal honesty alone prevails. Here & now, in an unending unbroken continuum, either we are in the light or we aren’t. In lived reality, not in imagination of thought.

Now, if there is a flash of recognition of singularity, my submission is not to to negate such a possibility but rather to postulate that such an ‘enlightenment’ is the exception rather than the rule. Possibly arduous past life learning may have ripened consciousness for such a blossoming.

For others, me included, it appears to be a long walk home. We may be wrong, however!

***

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

***

We have on the one hand, a reasoned concept of non-duality and on the other, actuality of so knowing, as an unwavering wisdom, breathed moment to moment.

What seems valid, for me at least, is to recognise duality to begin with, being what it is, then, experientially shift to interconnectivity in contemplation & meditation recognising oneness and then to singularity when we vaporise in the bliss of Samadhi. On a personal note, having so experienced all stages, the awareness is as yet flickering. Unstable.

There is no scope in the recognition of what is or appears to be as is, for lower mind or thought to intervene. Brutal honesty alone prevails. Here & now, in an unending unbroken continuum, either we are in the light or we aren’t. In lived reality, not in imagination of thought.

Now, if there is a flash of recognition of singularity, my submission is not to to negate such a possibility but rather to postulate that such an ‘enlightenment’ is the exception rather than the rule. Possibly arduous past life learning may have ripened consciousness for such a blossoming.

For others, me included, it appears to be a long walk home. We may be wrong, however!

***

Yes it seems clear that for you the fast approach is not attractive and you are not in a position of despair with your practise. According to Niz despair only seems to be the purpose of practise for some and not all. Presumably practise actually works for some without despair.

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

***

We have on the one hand, a reasoned concept of non-duality and on the other, actuality of so knowing, as an unwavering wisdom, breathed moment to moment.

What seems valid, for me at least, is to recognise duality to begin with, being what it is, then, experientially shift to interconnectivity in contemplation & meditation recognising oneness and then to singularity when we vaporise in the bliss of Samadhi. On a personal note, having so experienced all stages, the awareness is as yet flickering. Unstable.

There is no scope in the recognition of what is or appears to be as is, for lower mind or thought to intervene. Brutal honesty alone prevails. Here & now, in an unending unbroken continuum, either we are in the light or we aren’t. In lived reality, not in imagination of thought.

Now, if there is a flash of recognition of singularity, my submission is not to to negate such a possibility but rather to postulate that such an ‘enlightenment’ is the exception rather than the rule. Possibly arduous past life learning may have ripened consciousness for such a blossoming.

For others, me included, it appears to be a long walk home. We may be wrong, however!

***

On the contrary, when using the direct approach (fast), Niz urged a direct knowing that one was already the Supreme. He was keen that the seeker believed him:)

[Unseeking Seeker]

***

Who is the non-existent seeker ...

Who is the doer who despairs ...

Who is the believer or non-believer ...

Who is the practicer ...

There is no one here, save an experiencer

(not a koan)

***

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

***

Who is the non-existent seeker ...

Who is the doer who despairs ...

Who is the believer or non-believer ...

Who is the practicer ...

There is no one here, save an experiencer

(not a koan)

***

The solution is always the same from a nondual perspective, Oneness as the only reality appearing as all, paricularly the things you regard as problematic. Include them as Oneness and your problem of practising them away disappears.

[zorkchop]

You two are on the cusp of coming to terms of one of the greatest limitations / handcuffs of the mental approach. Eventually . . . after innumerable lifetimes . . . there is the slow realization that the mind . . . through its incessant and compelling labels, definitions, analysis . . . demands to resolve all into an either / or understanding.

There are very few “things” / concepts / principles that are either all one way or the other.

Doing so negates one of the primary and fundamental approaches to the understanding of LIFE. This approach is adequately known . . . somewhat popular . . . and lightly promoted through the eons . . . but is overlooked and set aside for the mental demand to choose a side and move along.

I’m not going to reveal what this principle is. It is rarely discussed on this forum board . . . or any other that I have observed. The principle can be discovered and understood quite easily . . . but the mind is incessant in its process . . . and most fall back to the either / or. It is more a matter of mind protecting the either / or approach than to allow a greater principle to gain recognition in the individual.

The adventure . . . as always . . . continues.

[Unseeking Seeker]

***

@ zorkchop ... ah! The plot thickens! We got to watch the full movie to know who dun it! And you aren’t saying!

***

[zorkchop]

Un-Seeker . . .

Try not to get too caught up in the dilemma. The principle has been around forever but has been over-shadowed by the gleeful pursuit of either / or in anything and everything . . . the theories of philosophy / religion / psychology and even spiritual to a degree succumbing to the entertain values of endless banter. Slowly . . . VERY slowly . . . the individual will recognize that s/he has had enough . . . and must look elsewhere when and if actual discovery of greater Truth is desired. Until then . . . wordplay prevails.

One of the founding principles of the psychic realms is to discover what works . . . by first learning what does NOT work. Since mind can conjure up most anything . . . believable or not . . . this takes forever.

Keep it all simple in the search. You’d no doubt recognize the principle but but perhaps dismissed it in favor of the more entertaining avenue. Most do. I did too. Understanding the depth of this principle is the key . . . and yet . . . it is again just the start. Ways to uncover all of this is right in front of you. It is neither hidden nor secret . . . but simply unrecognized and quickly dismissed . . . and it certainly takes all the sport out of many mental dilemmas and trades it all in for understanding . . . which is NOT an easy section of the Path to walk.