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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Taoism

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  #1  
Old 08-12-2010, 02:37 AM
TzuJanLi
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Tao Te Ching, Chapter One

Greetings..

For those interested, i propose a chapter by chapter discussion of the Tao Te Ching.. i will open with the Gia Feng & Jane English translation of Chapter One:

The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao.
The name that can be named is not the eternal name.
The nameless is the beginning of heaven and Earth.
The named is the mother of the ten thousand things.
Ever desireless, one can see the mystery.
Ever desiring, one sees the manifestations.
These two spring from the same source but differ in name; this appears as darkness.
Darkness within darkness.
The gate to all mystery.

For 29 translations, cross-reeferenced, please see the following link: http://www.wayist.org/ttc%20compared/index.htm
The St. Xenophon Library is quite a remarkable resporce.. Anyway, the link provides much in the way of additional perspectives, and your own perspectives are equally 'Tao'..

Be well..
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  #2  
Old 10-12-2010, 03:15 PM
RobinoftheMoor RobinoftheMoor is offline
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You are asking a drop of moisture in a fog to separate itself and make comment on the fog. Without that drop of moisture, the fog would not be complete, and therefore the comment--no matter how wise in its description--will never be accurate. (Already we have 29 scholarly translations!) And--yes, I know--the drop can look inside itself and generalize over to the other, external, drops--another manifestation that comes close...soooo close. And...so on in our explanations, until we accumulate with a number of other drops that think as we do...
I think these initial verses are a description of the separation of ego from the ultimate reality. If we were still within the flow of the ultimate reality, why would we care to ask such questions? Could it be that we would like to understand the ultimate reality in order to control it ourselves?
....Since we are separate (and apparently in no hurry to rejoin the ultimate reality), this will make a very good discussion...my thanks to you for starting it.
Manifestation 10,002,
Rob
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  #3  
Old 06-12-2011, 03:30 PM
Sarian Sarian is offline
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TzuJanLi, you started this thread almost a year ago this week. I would be grateful for you, when you have time to tell me your translations of the Tao. I've only read one translation of it (wayne dwyer's) when I found his book in the bargain bin at Borders, but while beforehand, I was never a fan of Mr. Dwyer or any self-help author for that matter, the words of the Tao struck a cord within me. I would like to study the verses.
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  #4  
Old 14-12-2011, 10:54 PM
TzuJanLi
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Greetings..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarian
TzuJanLi, you started this thread almost a year ago this week. I would be grateful for you, when you have time to tell me your translations of the Tao. I've only read one translation of it (wayne dwyer's) when I found his book in the bargain bin at Borders, but while beforehand, I was never a fan of Mr. Dwyer or any self-help author for that matter, the words of the Tao struck a cord within me. I would like to study the verses.
I understand Chapter 1 as a hint, regarding the condition of our mind if we are to truly understand our relationship with our selves and our environment which is the Cosmos..

The mind that is 'still and quiet' does not relate 'names' to that which is being experienced.. 'names' are the expectations that 'labels' attach to experiences..

Stillness and quietness are deep and mysterious, allowing space for creation to unfold.. frenzy and noise fill space and distract the senses, like trying to see through dirty windows..

"Darkness within darkness", getting out of your own way, can reveal the 'way' things are.. but, the active mind will convince you of the 'way' it thinks things should be.. the difference is profound..

The 'still and quiet mind' desires nothing, and so rejects nothing, but.. receives what 'is', and sees the relationships which reveal the path of least resistance.. stillness in motion..

Be well..
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  #5  
Old 19-12-2011, 12:39 AM
Sarian Sarian is offline
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I would love a mind that is still and quiet. I have not managed how to declutter yet . There have been times when my mind is open for clarity, thoughts that may not seem my own, or maybe I'm just losing my mind...but would that also be the same as when you say "allowing space for creation to unfold?" Because it's during those times that my mind becomes still and quiet (and it doesn't appear to be my own doing, but I don't know)...the words and visions that come into mymind are pretty amazing...and yes, it occurs when I have gotten out of my own way. I had to read your response a few times because, as I mentioned previously, my mind tends to be too cluttered and makes it hard to grasp what i read sometimes. I do notice the difference and yes the difference has been profound.

Thank you, TzuJanLi, I'm interesting in hearing more.
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  #6  
Old 19-12-2011, 02:15 AM
Gem Gem is online now
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I love the paradox where the ultimate mystery is the beginning of understanding.
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  #7  
Old 20-12-2011, 06:17 PM
peteyzen peteyzen is offline
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The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao.
this Tao is beyond comprehension by a human method of communication
The name that can be named is not the eternal name.
To put a tag on the tao is to miss its imensity, it is beyond description
The nameless is the beginning of heaven and Earth.
The Tao, which we cannot describe, is the source of all this and the next plane
The named is the mother of the ten thousand things.
The Tao, is the source and material from which everything is manifested
Ever desireless, one can see the mystery.
when you move beyond desires, beyond ego, the Tao is realised
Ever desiring, one sees the manifestations.
when trapped within ego, we see only the manifestations of the tao, not its truth
These two spring from the same source but differ in name; this appears as darkness.
these two versions of truth depending on the ego state are both of the tao both truths seem to the other to be an illusion
Darkness within darkness.
illusion within a deeper illusion
The gate to all mystery.
passing beyond this illusion is the purpose of mankind

Thats my ten penneths worth
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  #8  
Old 21-12-2011, 10:31 AM
TzuJanLi
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Greetings..

Quote:
Originally Posted by peteyzen
The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao.
this Tao is beyond comprehension by a human method of communication
The name that can be named is not the eternal name.
To put a tag on the tao is to miss its imensity, it is beyond description
The nameless is the beginning of heaven and Earth.
The Tao, which we cannot describe, is the source of all this and the next plane
The named is the mother of the ten thousand things.
The Tao, is the source and material from which everything is manifested
Ever desireless, one can see the mystery.
when you move beyond desires, beyond ego, the Tao is realised
Ever desiring, one sees the manifestations.
when trapped within ego, we see only the manifestations of the tao, not its truth
These two spring from the same source but differ in name; this appears as darkness.
these two versions of truth depending on the ego state are both of the tao both truths seem to the other to be an illusion
Darkness within darkness.
illusion within a deeper illusion
The gate to all mystery.
passing beyond this illusion is the purpose of mankind

Thats my ten penneths worth
What happens if we take the word 'ego' out of the picture, it is one of the "ten thousand things" that its 'name' creates.. nothing changes about the person if we never use the word 'ego'.. well, we won't have a 'label' to divide ourselves into desirable and undesirable traits.. just a thought..

Be well..
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  #9  
Old 23-12-2011, 10:02 AM
peteyzen peteyzen is offline
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but ego is in the picture.
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  #10  
Old 23-12-2011, 01:28 PM
Gem Gem is online now
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It's a nice verse... the author is ingenious.
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