Nonduality and "The Guru".

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

I have had experience since being a child, without any outside help, I know the mind control some people try on others but I am not interested as I have had experience of seeing the damage it can do to vunerable people. All the answers are within.... the placebo effect is amazing because it does help some people help themselves and that's what's important.

Sounds good if that is what you want to believe

[sky]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Sounds good if that is what you want to believe

It is veeeeeery good Seeing people get well through placebo tablets proves the effect works, it's all in the mind after all.

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by Gem

I think non-duality means that there is no entity to identity. I e. There is no 'you' in regards to an 'other'.

People sometimes make that claim about themselves, and sometimes about their so called Guru. That doesn't mean that dropping away has happened. The separate self could just as easily be hiding behind that facade. and the so called Guru could be unaware of that. Conditioning is most effective when it is forgotten that it has happened:)

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Iamit

People sometimes make that claim about themselves, and sometimes about their so called Guru. That doesn't mean that dropping away has happened. The separate self could just as easily be hiding behind that facade. and the so called Guru could be unaware of that. Conditioning is most effective when it is forgotten that it has happened:)

When one has moved beyond the self they become One Like Siva.

If that is the case there is no doubt as they can directly prove it.

If it is all talk, all astral.. you know they haven't.

[Iamit]

[quote=jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Iamit

It's not hard.

A real guru can touch your mind, bring deep silence and energy to help one let go of issues.

For instance a person recently reached out to me because she was suffering daily panic attacks that would last 5 hours every night.

A couple of days of working with my friend and she no longer has panic attacks.

He didn't tell her how to live, what to do, didn't tell her to start doing any particular practices. He shared his presence.

It is that type of presence, when one feels the heart open and love pores forth that one knows.

A real guru shares grace, not words or concepts or dictates.

When there is a stereotype, like the one you just described, the mind can easily and very convincinly fabricate that. The so called Guru may not be aware of such conditioning, which is more effective when the 'Guru' is unaware of it. It is well known that the mind can do this for very good defensive reasons, to protect the organism it serves.

Its not necessary to believe in the messenger as enlightened to have a resonance with what is said, which may even end feeling disconnected.

Another barrier is then removed from already burdened seekers, of having to sort out whether someone is enlightened or not. What a relief!

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

When one has moved beyond the self they become One Like Siva.

If that is the case there is no doubt as they can directly prove it.

If it is all talk, all astral.. you know they haven't.

It is a very painful and maybe damaging thing when something comes to light that contradicts what is believed to be true, that was hidden when it was believed the truth had been discovered. in this case a true Guru. Removing the impossible task of having to know the truth gets rid of another obstacle in the way of the seeker.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Iamit

It is a very painful and maybe damaging thing when something comes to light that contradicts what is believed to be true, that was hidden when it was believed the truth had been discovered. in this case a true Guru. Removing the impossible task of having to know the truth gets rid of another obstacle in the way of the seeker.

Wouldn't that show ones attachments if it was so painful that a thought can do such damage?

The true removal of obstructions are liberating, expansive.. not damaging. How can the removal of obstructions be damaging? It is the obstruction that causes the damage, not the removal of it.

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Wouldn't that show ones attachments if it was so painful that a thought can do such damage?

The true removal of obstructions are liberating, expansive.. not damaging. How can the removal of obstructions be damaging? It is the obstruction that causes the damage, not the removal of it.

The obstruction is having to first know whether the messanger is enlightened or not. It is the removal of that requirement that gets rid of another burden for the seeker.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Iamit

The obstruction is having to first know whether the messanger is enlightened or not. It is the removal of that requirement that gets rid of another burden for the seeker.

I would not consider knowing if someone is enlightened or not an obstruction unless you are obsessed about it. Nor do I understand how finding out if someone is could cause someone harm.

If you are open you will be amazed at the grace that can come into our lives.

If on the other hand you don't believe and think you know it all..

Well we have a lot of those around here don't we :)

[sky]

' If on the other hand you don't believe and think you know it all..

Well we have a lot of those around here don't we :) '

Then we have those who think they know the one's who think they know it all