What is Emptiness?

[markings]

The emptiness of the Buddha is an emptiness of thought, i.e. a state of no thought. To my knowledge the only path which addresses this directly is Zen which tries to put an end to intellectualism and speculation.

Mantra based practices are a work around by occupying the mind so that it does not digress into useless activities.

There may be other practices with a similar aim.

The goal is to get to a primary state of being from which thinking and doing can arise.
For most people the primary state is one of thinking or doing, but being cannot arise from there.

The difficulty people have with non-thinking is that they will effectively cease to exist. Since thinking is their primary mode non-thinking is death.
They will say, how can I function without thought? I would not find my way home, I would not be able to do my work without thinking.

As J Krishnamurti pointed out this is a failure to distinguish between two kind of thoughts, factual and non-factual thoughts. The first relates to things, the world, our body and its needs. There is nothing wrong with that kind of thought. The other kind, which we should eliminate, is psychological thoughts, thoughts about things which only exist in our head, including our self, our image, etc.

Psychological thought includes metaphysical thought, so all philosophy and spirituality is essentially a useless if not detrimental activity with which we entertain ourselves so that we can escape from reality into our own fairy tale.

[blossomingtree]

Did you practice Zen Buddhism, markings?

Thanks,

BT

[AtTheHawksWell]

Originally Posted by markings

The difficulty people have with non-thinking is that they will effectively cease to exist.

A thoughtful post, thank you. I will say this, as I have experienced for myself at least: beyond non-thinking, is intuitive understanding.

Human thinking is a natural process; nothing wrong with thinking, we all think. We're all souls who are learning and evolving, and the consciousness leap in this case has to do with next-level thinking: the knowledge and practice of intuitive understanding. But even intuitive understanding requires the human thought element, we can't escape that. That's just a natural part of the incarnation experience.

The difference though - the evolution of thinking into intuitive understanding - is one learns to not attach to the mundane intellectual idea or belief, and instead remain open to allow the higher truth to be recognized, and to prevail. I could speak for paragraphs on this organic and quite magical process, but I'll leave it at that.

This may or not be what you are referring to, and that's all fine as my intention is to simply add to the conversation.

Edit: Oh I see now this is an old thread, well hopefully a conversation can still come out of it. Thanks.

[Jyotir]

Hi markings,

It means the cessation of any internal energetic that attempts to remedy the existential 'crisis' of life by false, ignorant, objective means: desire, ego, ambition, aggression, attachment, comfort, power, wealth....etc.,....

When all of that consistently gets boring, tiresome, drops away, fails to satisfy, fails to attract, that is a very ripe state.

That is what allows God to commence the real fulfillment.

Because there is clearly and indisputably an extensive history of proven spiritual application (excluding philosophy which is intellectual in nature) toward the deliberate concentration and acceleration of self-realization by intelligent will in practice, the following statement hardly seems credible, even if it is currently fashionable.

spirituality is essentially a useless if not detrimental activity with which we entertain ourselves so that we can escape from reality into our own fairy tale

~ J

[AtTheHawksWell]

Originally Posted by Jyotir

Because there is clearly and indisputably an extensive history of proven spiritual application (excluding philosophy which is intellectual in nature) toward the deliberate concentration and acceleration of self-realization by intelligent will in practice, the following statement hardly seems credible, even if it is currently fashionabl. Quote: "spirituality is essentially a useless if not detrimental activity with which we entertain ourselves so that we can escape from reality into our own fairy tale."

Yes, correct. But is it fashionable to knock spirit, or is it the current state of many individuals' attitude towards life in general? Pessimism and cynicism has become fashionable, if that's what you mean. And many people would express that same contempt towards most any topic we cared to discuss; politics, as an obvious example. An individual who has not come to a conscious recognition of "clear and indisputable," will simply disregard that comment of yours as personal opinion. And it cannot be any other way, given that scornful personal opinion is the roommate of pessimism and cynicism.

Perhaps if we seek to raise and lift up the very understanding of what is even meant by "spiritual." I will start that dialogue by saying: given everything is spirit, and knowing everything we experience is for the benefit of soul-spirit growth, there can be no life experience that can ever be characterized as useless, or detrimental. And to live life believing in fairy tales? Well that's one particular expression of living life in full consciousness; of recognizing the nature of spirit, and how it permeates the material.

[Molearner]

Perhaps we might remember that 'Blessed are the poor in spirit' is, in effect, and invitation to emptiness.

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by Jyotir

Hi markings,

It means the cessation of any internal energetic that attempts to remedy the existential 'crisis' of life by false, ignorant, objective means: desire, ego, ambition, aggression, attachment, comfort, power, wealth....etc.,....

When all of that consistently gets boring, tiresome, drops away, fails to satisfy, fails to attract, that is a very ripe state.

That is what allows God to commence the real fulfillment.

Because there is clearly and indisputably an extensive history of proven spiritual application (excluding philosophy which is intellectual in nature) toward the deliberate concentration and acceleration of self-realization by intelligent will in practice, the following statement hardly seems credible, even if it is currently fashionable.




~ J

In Buddhism it's called a raft to cross to the other shore. No need to demean the raft, in fact, thanks might be in order if one was willing.

BT

[Ahriman]

Emptiness is a profound lack of positive stimulation, resulting in emotional numbness and miserable boredom. Many people try to fill the void with religion, food, drugs, sex, work etc.

[Nature Grows]

Originally Posted by Ahriman

Emptiness is a profound lack of positive stimulation, resulting in emotional numbness and miserable boredom. Many people try to fill the void with religion, food, drugs, sex, work etc.

Haha! i love this guy, his like the brother of SlayerOfLight...

[slash112]

Originally Posted by Ahriman

Emptiness is a profound lack of positive stimulation, resulting in emotional numbness and miserable boredom. Many people try to fill the void with religion, food, drugs, sex, work etc.

If you are miserable or bored, you are not empty. In fact quite the opposite, you are filled to the brim with miserableness and boredom.

Emptiness is bliss.