How do men experience soul connections

[jimrich]

Originally Posted by Robot

Need men's povs please lol
It seems like my tf isn't too aware of his feelings but at the same time is sorta controlled by them. Like he acts out and does stuff but gives a blank when it comes to anything involving recognizing feelings of the moment esp the subtler ones. I guess also gotta consider that he's not awake yet. For me it was the longing and instant recognition of similarities at a very deep level. It's like he says he doesn't feel stuff but he sure is good at acting out.

When he "acts out", is he abusive, mean, careless, hostile, unfriendly, cruel, etc.? Something in your post tells me this is not about psychological damages from a bad childhood, so, what is it?

[TheGlow]

Originally Posted by jimrich

As a man, who ruined his 1st marriage and had to do a lot of therapy and self examining, I can only say that your mate seems about like I was: lost in Denial and in need of learning or acquiring some good relationship skills (google it).

Same here! It's called DENIAL! I pretty much ignored my feelings and was also taught early on to HIDE my feelings (like most other males) so I would look "tough, in control and COOL! But, just like your guy, I could become quite emotional when triggered or DRUNK!


IMO, that is just a convenient excuse to cover up for the sad fact that he, like me, was never taught how to make a relationship work in the first place and may need you to inspire him to get busy and LEARN HOW.


His basic problem, IMO, is that he was not taught how to make a relationship work at home and is now in need of some training.
There are many, many good relationship books out there and you can also google: relationship tips or relationshp skills and get started having the kind of relationship you BOTH want or go find someone who will give you the things you want.

Im not sure about this. I had a horrible family example. Not one good relationship I saw yet despite that I chose to treat others how I wished to be treated. Love, respect, no games, no manipulation, honesty.

This stuff comes naturally it seems a bit sheepish to blame someone for not teaching it. Someone can teach you to behave badly but still it's a choice to follow.

I was beaten, manipulated, abused in ways I need not talk about. It didn't make me perpetuate the behavior it made me sure I would not do the same to others, and to have empathy for the suffering of others.

At some point we have to stop blaming and realize choices were made.

[jimrich]

Originally Posted by Robot

I wouldn't say disinterest as much as i think my tf has shut out feelings at some levels but they definitely show in the way he acts. and yea he's been hurt before. Thanks guys.

So, does he hurt you in the way that he "acts"? IMO, "shut out feelings" may be connected to early childhood trauma which taught him to suppress or hide his feelings from others. That's how it was for me.

[jimrich]

Originally Posted by Robot

So how do I go about waking up the sleepyhead tf? I know he's gone thru a lot of **** and is prone to acting out.

Since you are "awake" just set a good example for him or get him to a good guru.

I suddenly learned to let go and calm down at a time that's not of my conscious choosing so I can't explain how I suddenly learned how to work thru stuff rather than lash out.

OK, now I'm getting the picture. He "lashes out" which I'd call bottled up, unresolved feelings, perhaps from childhood. If I were you, I would not put up with abuse or disrespect and I'd give him an ultimatum: Learn how to make the relationship work or it's OVER! If you really are awake, you must know what your Rights are and also that you have a right to be teated better!

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by jimrich

If I were you, I would not put up with abuse or disrespect and I'd give him an ultimatum: Learn how to make the relationship work or it's OVER! If you really are awake, you must know what your Rights are and also that you have a right to be teated better!

Personally, i no longer think I have a right to walk all over other people just to get the treatment I want. That is no better than what they were doing to me. If I don't want it fine, get out, but if I do it is just plain mean to try to make the other person be something they don't want to be.

[jimrich]

Originally Posted by TheGlow

Im not sure about this. I had a horrible family example. Not one good relationship I saw yet despite that I chose to treat others how I wished to be treated. Love, respect, no games, no manipulation, honesty.

Cool, I respect you for that but don't get the idea that everyone was raised like you were or has the same values that you had and now have. Each one of us is different in some ways and NONE of us is: correct, right, best, perfect, etc.

This stuff comes naturally it seems a bit sheepish to blame someone for not teaching it. Someone can teach you to behave badly but still it's a choice to follow.

I would respect and honor what you are saying If you would speak for and about your self rather than blame and lecture others. This "stuff" may come "naturally" for you but might come very differently for others in a different family or situation. The label "sheepish" is sheepish, IMO! And who is blaming anyone? Re: "but still its a choice to follow". That may be true for you, even though you don't say so, but it may not be true for others - including me!

I was beaten, manipulated, abused in ways I need not talk about. It didn't make me perpetuate the behavior it made me sure I would not do the same to others, and to have empathy for the suffering of others.

I am very proud of you and even prouder that you used the 'I' word to speak of your own experiences and accomplishments. You could be a shining example of hope for other abused kids.

At some point we have to stop blaming and realize choices were made.

I don't know who this "we" is but please do not lump me in with your sweeping proclamation.
As for me, I do not "blame" anyone for anything but am willing to state the facts as I know them and not find excuses for mine or others behavior. My parents made their (bad) choices and I made mine. None of us were perfect and all of us made mistakes, in my opinion.

[jimrich]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

Personally, i no longer think I have a right to walk all over other people just to get the treatment I want. That is no better than what they were doing to me.

I agree. I would not walk all over anyone - for any reason at all, but, I sure do know how to stand up for my rights and get the treatment I want - especially from a TF.

If I don't want it fine, get out, but if I do it is just plain mean to try to make the other person be something they don't want to be.

So if you don't want to leave, you will stay and go on being someone's defenseless, little DOOR MAT.
Cool!

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by jimrich

So if you don't want to leave, you will stay and go on being someone's defenseless, little DOOR MAT.
Cool!

hehehe

[jimrich]

Baile, please do not feel attacked, picked on or examined but this is what I see in you post...........

Originally Posted by Baile

Obviously one can only speak form their experience, I'm not sure there is one generic "man's perspective." I was always a sensitive male, I've been all about honoring the female since the age of about 7, it honestly started that early for me. But my unconscious life still had to play out.

Exactly what is "my unconscious life"? IMO, you are speaking of your unremembered or even unresolved past from early childhood.

I hurt people in my 20's, that was a pretty unconscious time for me.

For me, that period of my life was mostly about bad childhood programing that unwittingly and unconsciously emerged and hurt others.

I started getting it together in my 30's. It was in my 40's that my fully-conscious self came into being.

Cool! I'm still waiting to become fully conscious. Congratulations!

In one relationship I didn't love the person, and was too cowardly to get out of it for several reasons.

Same here. I stayed because I was afraid to be alone or take charge of my own life so I tried to live like her house pet!

So that was one reason I hurt the person: I wasn't thoughtful and considerate because I didn't love them.

For me, it wasn't a lack of love but more a lack of self esteem and courage which I often believed was love and loyalty but not really!

In the other long relationship I had, I cared for the person, but they were always putting stuff on me: what I was doing and who I was, wasn't enough.

My 1st, failed marriage was kind of like that too. I was her little, codependent door mat. I'm surprised your "fully-conscious self" allowed you to take it.

And I'm going to tell you how extreme and ridiculous that got: by the end of the relationship, I was the one working, and paying the mortgage and all the bills, and doing all the cooking and housework, and STILL she left on a moment's notice without telling me a thing. I came home and her bags were packed, she was moving to another city and had already rented a place!

Whew, that sounds like a Codependent trap where you were the Dependent one and she (the other Codependent) used you as long as possible and then LEFT YOU. That's pretty much how Codependency works and one or both Codependents usually gets hurt.

And I'm not a bad person, I'm happy in life. There was just nothing I could do to please her apparently.

Codependent's can NEVER be pleased because they all carry early childhood, emotional damages that leave both of them extremely needy and desperate USERS.

I will say this though: the burden of never being enough, yet still having to do and be everything, had turned to resentment. And that resentment manifested as lack of interest in being close to the person. In that case I was hurt more than just disinterested. But the result was the same.

Codependency hurts everyone caught up in it. I had to learn some very harsh lessons about Codependency in my 1st marriage but my now marriage is OK, thanks to therapy.

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by jimrich

Since you are "awake" just set a good example for him or get him to a good guru.
...
OK, now I'm getting the picture. He "lashes out" which I'd call bottled up, unresolved feelings, perhaps from childhood. If I were you, I would not put up with abuse or disrespect and I'd give him an ultimatum: Learn how to make the relationship work or it's OVER! If you really are awake, you must know what your Rights are and also that you have a right to be teated better!

Jimrich, I really like most of your straight-up, no-nonsense talk. The only thing I'd say is...it's great to try all you have suggested. BUT don't expect that any of it will necessarily move the needle and DO expect that you will most likely either 1) endure or 2) leave. And you are quite right that of those 2 options, leaving is the far healthier choice 99% of the time.

For you Jimrich personally, having someone model good behaviour toward you and treat you will love and kindness worked to change you for the good because you were open, ready, and at the right place on your path.

For the vast majority of other relationships in this place (whether partners, friends, or fam), it doesn't work, and often never works satisfactorily no matter how long love and kindness is given and modeled. And no matter how much time passes. Because it's up to the other do the work involved in growth and change and for most, all the love in the world isn't remotely incentive enough. Not in this time and place.

So...with that one HUGE caveat...your suggestions are excellent and should generally be given a go...but with the SOLID understanding that unless the recalcitrant, truculent, addicted and/or rude/cruel/angry individual is open, willing, and capable of change, it won't make a damn bit of difference, sadly.

Success of the other changing nearly all depends on the other -- and nearly nothing at all depends on you -- and simply pouring the water of love and kindness on the rock would still take an eternity to reshape the rock.

Peace & blessings,
7L