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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > General Beliefs

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  #11  
Old 28-06-2019, 05:15 PM
Jainarayan Jainarayan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
For instance, if family members have made poor choices their whole lives and we pick up the pieces for them time and time again, can that be considered as our karma, life lesson, or simply just enabling them? Will these people ever face what they have done if someone is always there to save them and clean up after their mess?

I am not the enabler here, but I'm involved through marriage. I'm having a really hard time with this.
It's not your karma directly, but dharma which may be a result of your karma. Dharma means path, duty (among other things --- Sanskrit is a pip). And what you do on or with your dharma contributes to your karma. I can't directly address your situation but I'll relate mine.

I came out as gay at 38 years old. Not long after that I met the person I am now married to. It has not been the easiest 23 years of my life, primarily because of his family and choices he made. They all had the attitude "I'll do what I want when, where, how and why I want" with no regard for consequences ("consequences shmonsequences" as Daffy Duck said in a cartoon) because someone would always swoop in to rescue them.

You get one guess who was always there to clean up the mess. I considered leaving many a time, both leaving the relationship and leaving the world, if you know what I mean. But after thinking on all this long and hard --- meditating, if you will --- I came to the conclusion that in a past life (or more than one, I don't learn) I had a family and a good life that for some reason I walked away from. I think now I'm in a similar situation. If I walked away, would I come back into a similar, or worse situation?

Our subsequent lives serve several purposes, one of which is to finish what we started in other lives and to learn and spiritually progress. The joke is that we don't really know; we might suspect it like what's happening to me. In my case, I thought my life as a gay man would find me settling into a relationship with another guy without family drama, just us in a nice house, pets, maybe adopted children. But real life turned out so much differently. Am I happy in my life? No. I have no friends anymore, I hardly see my family. As I said, however, if I walked away (again?) how might that set me back in my progress? I really can't know, it's just a suspicion, or maybe a rationalization. So I have to believe it's my dharma to do this.
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  #12  
Old 28-06-2019, 07:14 PM
Lucky Lucky is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 527
 
Greenslade,
Thank you so much for taking the time to explain further in a way I could understand. I read your response many times to let it really sink in. This does give me a new perspective. What I have stuck in my mind is that the few times I've seen a psychic/intuitive/healer they have each picked up on these circumstances and all have said they don't like what's "being done" to me by them, or that they carry negative energy, marking them as "bad" for me, even going as far to say his mother was his wife in a past life and I was the other woman he fell in love with and she still has her hooks in him in this lifetime as a way of revenge. In addition, to refer to God-Like's reply in this thread about ancestral lines and patterns, I am aware there is dabbling in voodoo on his side of the family, and she is still alive. Not sure if that is a factor.
Naturally none of them took the time to explain agreements and soul contracts, so that victim mentality stuck with me.

God-Like,
I agree with you about healing ancestral lines. I can easily see patterns in generations of my own family as well as my husband's and it's interesting to see certain behaviors repeat and where cycles are broken. I think what makes it a bit difficult is when you seem to be the only one involved who is aware of the importance of taking measures to purify and develop spiritually. Again, I agree with you when you mention the work we do on ourselves to improve and developing self love affects the collective. I have seen small instances in my own life where I have shed some beliefs that no longer served me and in turn the situations in my life that reflected these beliefs just disappeared.

Jainarayan,
I can appreciate your view on dharma and karma. Thank you for sharing your own personal story, and I can see how it relates to the question of what would happen if we were to walk away just because it's hard. Very insightful.
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  #13  
Old 28-06-2019, 09:48 PM
ketzer
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
For instance, if family members have made poor choices their whole lives and we pick up the pieces for them time and time again, can that be considered as our karma, life lesson, or simply just enabling them? Will these people ever face what they have done if someone is always there to save them and clean up after their mess?

I am not the enabler here, but I'm involved through marriage. I'm having a really hard time with this.
Well, after acknowledging the point that Karma does seem to have as many definitions in popular use these days as there are mouths to speak it, I would say that yes, in my definition, this could by your Karma as well as theirs. I am tempted to say that perhaps in a previous life you were the one playing the role of your husband, or perhaps his family member. Not that you are being punished, but perhaps exploring the dynamics of what it means to love someone and/or be loved from different perspectives. Charity is much easier when we only know that someone is down on their luck and needs a hand. But when we get to know someone like that personally, we often find that they are the ones who are sabotaging themselves. When it is someone we have formed a bond of love with, it creates such a difficult dynamic. We don't want to be the ones to suffer for the poor choices they are making with their free will, but we can't seem to just let go either. If it is a relative by marriage, it can be just as difficult to figure out how to split one's loyalties between self and others. The advice to set boundaries, and encourage hubby to do the same is about as good as any can give from afar. But it is easy for us to say as the guilt (and perhaps fear) are still going to be yours and your husbands to grapple with. About the only thing I might add is not to avoid the emotions of the whole thing, as this is always a big part of resolving Karmas (IMO). That and my sympathies and support.
We all want to be loved, and we all want to feel love for others, there is no other experience like it and IMO, the biggest and most essential part of why we are here in the first place. Yet as soon as we start feeling that bond of love for another, we start to notice their suffering and it becomes our suffering as well, and we inherently avoid suffering. Pushed pulled, drawn, repulsed, such a difficult thing to deal with, yet such a common part of life for anyone who seeks that connection of love. The deeper the love the more sensitive to their suffering we become.
BTW, You may have seen the movie "A River Run's Through It", it deals with this aspect of life in what I thought was a very moving way, worth checking out if you haven't seen it. For moral support if nothing else.
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  #14  
Old 30-06-2019, 11:48 AM
Greenslade
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
Greenslade,
Thank you so much for taking the time to explain further in a way I could understand. I read your response many times to let it really sink in. This does give me a new perspective. What I have stuck in my mind is that the few times I've seen a psychic/intuitive/healer they have each picked up on these circumstances and all have said they don't like what's "being done" to me by them, or that they carry negative energy, marking them as "bad" for me, even going as far to say his mother was his wife in a past life and I was the other woman he fell in love with and she still has her hooks in him in this lifetime as a way of revenge. In addition, to refer to God-Like's reply in this thread about ancestral lines and patterns, I am aware there is dabbling in voodoo on his side of the family, and she is still alive. Not sure if that is a factor.
Naturally none of them took the time to explain agreements and soul contracts, so that victim mentality stuck with me.
"Change how you see and see how you change."
Zen Quote

You're very welcome Lucky.

Dolores Cannon said that karma is being the bad guy in one Life and playing the good guy in the next, that way you can see the same thing from both sides of the coin. Add to that Life's Purpose and there you have it played out across Lifetimes. very often there are certain energy patterns coming through to, if you look underneath what's happening on the surface. It sounds very much as though what you and your husband are playing out in this Life is still the energy pattern of being 'eternally in Love' to coin a phrase, but the people around you are playing different roles so that you can experience the Love from different perspectives. I get the feeling this is centred around you and your husband somehow.

It's like Shakespeare's "All the world's a stage" and we are actors upon it, playing out roles to explore themes from different perspectives. Taking on Life's Purposes.... Doris Stoke's karma..... Being the 'other woman' in a previous Life and loving him, being his loving wife in this one.... Married to him in her previous Life and being a revengeful in this one...... Familiar patterns, whether you call them ancestral or karma is simply semantics.

Healers not telling you certain things and focussing on others tells you something too, those are very familiar energy patterns. Often healers 'play to the audience' and tell you things that you like to hear, so if you walk in with a victim mentality they'll give you more of the same. It keeps them in a job, basically. And all this 'bad stuff' and 'negative energy' is just sales talk really.

Thing is though, you're recognising the patterns and you're beginning to step outside them a little bit. When you do that Life becomes much more interesting because you see things from a completely different perspective. Not only does the victim mentality drop away but you can use the situations to your benefit, so you can use that to gain your own understandings. It's also worth noting that you can see the patterns in the first place and often that's a huge leap forwards. Many people even on these forums are unwitting victims to patterns they don't even know exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
Again, I agree with you when you mention the work we do on ourselves to improve and developing self love affects the collective. I have seen small instances in my own life where I have shed some beliefs that no longer served me and in turn the situations in my life that reflected these beliefs just disappeared.
You are infectious. When we change inside the Universe around us changes to suit, and all we have to do is be the best version of ourselves we can be. The rest comes automatically. Change yourself now that you recognise the patterns, and in the interconnectivity you can change the people around you in very subtle ways - you just have to find the right way. Gradually what that does is work its way through the 'network' as small changes are passed on from one to the next, and pretty soon you're making a dent in the ancestral patterns.
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  #15  
Old 01-07-2019, 03:38 PM
Lucky Lucky is offline
Guide
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 527
 
Greenslade, I really appreciate you reinforcing what I already know is true. Forgive me for using my post as an outlet to whine about how uncomfortable I am in this predicament ...I guess I really just needed some support, so thank you for taking the time and putting thought into your replies.

Also, thank you for giving me a virtual pat on the back for recognizing the patterns to begin with. I have, and I'm somewhat aware of what I need to do, as I've already taken some baby steps towards my self improvement. I started taking the focus off of the circumstances I've perceived as negative, and instead focused on myself and making some changes in a positive direction. To be honest, I was triggered last weekend by all of this in a big way...in fact some jaw dropping truths were revealed to both my husband and I regarding the situation. I do get the sense this lesson is for both of us to overcome together, as you'd mentioned. I'll be taking some deep breaths and regaining focus on myself this week.
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  #16  
Old 01-07-2019, 07:51 PM
Greenslade
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
Greenslade, I really appreciate you reinforcing what I already know is true. Forgive me for using my post as an outlet to whine about how uncomfortable I am in this predicament ...I guess I really just needed some support, so thank you for taking the time and putting thought into your replies.

Also, thank you for giving me a virtual pat on the back for recognizing the patterns to begin with. I have, and I'm somewhat aware of what I need to do, as I've already taken some baby steps towards my self improvement. I started taking the focus off of the circumstances I've perceived as negative, and instead focused on myself and making some changes in a positive direction. To be honest, I was triggered last weekend by all of this in a big way...in fact some jaw dropping truths were revealed to both my husband and I regarding the situation. I do get the sense this lesson is for both of us to overcome together, as you'd mentioned. I'll be taking some deep breaths and regaining focus on myself this week.
You're very welcome Lucky, on all counts.

There's really nothing wrong with being human after all and if we can forgive ourselves that we can do the same for others. And sometimes we just need to vent our spleens or know that we're not alone. It's in that space that a different Spirituality emerges.

I get the sense that you got the sense, if that makes sense. I sense an intuition about you that I think you're still trying to come to terms with more fully, but you're heading in the right direction. It'll mature with you in time. Everything happens for a reason so sometimes it's best to focus on that rather than positive or negative, I think often think that train of thought means we're focussing on labelling it rather than the perceptions of something more constructive - like the situation being here to reveal truths. At least now you're heading in a better direction though and if hubby is with you then that's a touch of magic for you as well.

Have fun out there, Lucky.
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