About forgiving

Those who do not recognize or acknowledge their actions are sociopaths - they can't be helped because it's a subconscious disobedience. It's a horrible karmic cycle for these souls until they decide to take responsibility, because life is like a playground to them - that's it.
This is probably a limited understanding of sociopaths but it's what makes sense to me.
They must disobey their souls to an extreme level.

It's sometimes difficult because unless they're soul-searching or growing acquainted with themselves somehow, some people really don't comprehend their behaviour, possibly because it goes right back to factors of their extreme youth. They can't help their misdemeanour nor do much about it unless some trauma befalls them. Could have been that they've been hurt or damaged in some way. But at their current state they can't be expected to change their ways overnight.

In this instance it isn't so much forgiveness as dismissing the issue and, as Tanemon says, keeping a distance; putting a barrier up against falling victim again to that same behaviour/person.

It's born of practical necessity. No sense turning the other cheek when you run out of cheeks. Any feelgood will manifest from assurance in your fortifications.

...

[Gemcrusader]

Originally Posted by Robinski78

In the long run, positive energy (PE) will always overcome negative traits... It's a matter of using ones PE to good effect, sending it in the right direction at the appropriate strength at exactly the right time... Practice make perfect ~ or as near as is possible: to perfection...

This is not my experience. No positive energy can interfear in anyones negative patterns. Otherwise there could be no evolution basicly. I, for example or anyone, cannot unblock someones negative pattern if it isnt recognized. Its logic pretty much. So yes distance etc. is key. That doesnt mean i cant interact with people who can be quite negative. But i wont be friends with them quickly either.

[Gemcrusader]

double post

[Tanemon]

Originally Posted by Robinski78

There's an interesting chain of events that lead to an act of forgiveness, the second link being that of a judgmental nature...

No matter what is said and or done, it can go no further unless someone passes judgment and sentence on the said act...

Then, and only then, can an act of forgiveness become a reality or necessity...

I can't deny the reality you've described. If "a wrong" is committed, someone must recognize it as a wrong. Only if some act is recognized as a transgression or violation is there any need to forgive (or for 'the perpetrator' to apologize or make amends).

Robinski78, you are an interesting participant, an interesting thinker. So I'd like to describe a scenario and learn how you would respond to it.

Okay... You come home one evening after being away, only to find that your home has been entered and virtually everything of usefulness and value has been removed, and what's left is in disarray. You realize that you've heard of this same thing happening to some of your friends. Someone known to you and your circle of friends - someone who has always acted sociable, reasonable, and affable - turns out to be the culprit, since he is caught with stolen goods by the police. Unfortunately, this happens after he has passed along your useful and valuable items, using various channels of distribution that he'd developed over a period of time.

Do you think you'd judge the man? Do you feel his actions would have been wrong in any way? If, after an apparent change of heart, he apologized to you - how would you feel? Or, on the other hand, if he never apologized to any of the people he'd robbed, would that bear on how you feel about him?

[Robinski78]

Phew ~ that’s quite a challenge Tanemon…

At one stage (in years past) I’d probably have wanted to have torn him to shreds, both ‘mentally’ and physically… But as I’ve progressed through various stages of awareness (and aged somewhat) I’ve kinda changed my approach to many ‘situational’ responses…
Ridding my life completely of ‘anger’ (and anything closely related to it) has been one the most effective changes that’s taken place, because that now allows me to adopt a far clearer approach to any situation that I come face to face with…

Going back to the mid nineties, I actually arrived home one evening (it was 7.00pm guy fawkes night) to find three young men (average age late teens to mid twenties) ransacking the property I shared with a friend… All manner of items lined up ready to be loaded into parked vehicles… Crazy as it was (me aged 63) they saw me coming and as they departed empty handed (within a couple of feet of where I was stood) I verbally challenged them, although (apart from one threatening action) I was ignored… The apartment was in total disarray and took us both some time to sort things out…

I felt animosity towards these lads, naturally and had they been apprehended and sentenced, no doubt I’d have considered they’d got their just reward… In my case, I saw the perpetrators, so I suppose my reaction was (as would be expected) and natural… But there were no lingering thoughts of revenge or retribution…

In the situation you’ve described (and me having adopted my current approach to things) no doubt that if the losses were of a sentimental nature and were my belongings, I might well be deeply disappointed and as the person responsible had been caught and found to be guilty of the crime, no doubt think he deserved whatever punishment had been handed out…
In that situation, sincere apologies at a later date are always welcome, more to the fact that the criminal has recognised their wrongful deed, more than my satisfaction at their regret at having put me through any traumatic stress and strain: should the latter be forthcoming…

I’m now, more than ever convinced that everything that takes place in life, is meant to be so, for a reason and ‘positive’ purpose… Coming to terms with that and accepting such as a fact of life, took a great deal of forethought and acceptance… But in my case, it has deepened the quality of my peace of mind, making day to day survival a little gentler on the mind, body and soul…

Hope that is something of a satisfactory answer… It’s the best I could come up with in such a short space of time…

Have a great day...

Robbie….

[Rah nam]

Originally Posted by Gemcrusader

Sorry for another thread but anyway.

So today i was looking up somethin about it. Like in a dictionary. You know what it means but not totally so you look it up (or not)

What made this click, and what i also allready kinda realized but not fully is this:

Forgiving is not possible or has no effect if the perpetuator does NOT reckognize his actions.

The reason why a sorry can be so empty. And basicly means nothing. Its about letting quarter fall trough. If there are words and discussion, yet u feel the quarter is not going trough its meaningless.

How powerful forgiveness is for you, is entirely up ot you and no one else.

[Tanemon]

Thanks, Robbie. That seemed very honest and pertinent. Well explained, too. I appreciate the reply, and there's much to reflect on in it.

I believe our judgements are generally a matter of how we feel about things, perhaps more than how we think about them.

[Lucyan28]

Originally Posted by each1teach1

Those who do not recognize or acknowledge their actions are sociopaths - they can't be helped because it's a subconscious disobedience. It's a horrible karmic cycle for these souls until they decide to take responsibility, because life is like a playground to them - that's it.
This is probably a limited understanding of sociopaths but it's what makes sense to me.
They must disobey their souls to an extreme level.

Hi each1teach1 I like the word sociopath so much, I find it really awesome

Gemcrusader, basically if a person can't recognize that they are mistaken is a pathology, it's an illness. Don't feel bad if they don't even know if they're doing wrong things to you.

I can't imagine all the karma that we may generate if we don't have awareness of our thoughts-actions.

I used to be some kind of karma's avenger, always seeking for revenge, one simple thing helped me to forgive others: Nobody on this earth is perfect, all of us make errors, all of us offend people around us, sometimes we don't even perceive it.

We should be able to let go of all offenses that people do to us, that is crucial for our happiness.

Note: Try to see the life as a comedy instead of a drama maybe that will help a little.

[Tanemon]

Originally Posted by Lucyan28

We should be able to let go of all offenses that people do to us, that is crucial for our happiness.

I was just thinking about this, and I think that "letting go" as you say is what I've actually been able to do, often, which I was referring to as forgiving. I think "letting go" applies whether or not I've previously passed a moral judgement on the action or incident - and whether or not the 'perpetrator' has recognized any responsibility for some harm done.

When the psycho-physical reaction to the pain is released from within me, the letting go pretty well follows.