What actually IS the science of I AM?

[Honza]

People say that I AM is a science of sorts. The gist of it is that within us there is the inner light and inner universal "I". That self love in fact rules the Universe.

My query is: is not the outer "you" a science as well? Or is not the higher "God" a science too?

I cannot get my mind round the idea that there is no scientific you out there. Or that scientifically nothing is actually higher than me.

Scientifically speaking I do not rule the Universe. In what scientific way Am I God?

[H:O:R:A:C:E]

can you explain your question to me?
the process of laying out the idea in simple to understand
terms might serve to make it clear in your own mind.

Honza: I cannot get my mind round the idea that there is no scientific you out there. Or that scientifically nothing is actually higher than me.

there is no "higher" in a circle; it goes round and round.
if some piece of that whole were removed, the circle would be no more.
although a pyramid has an apex, that highest point is not "superior" to
all that exists below it, in fact, without the support provided to it, it
would exist in a lower state of being. furthermore, my sense of things
is that the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts.

[Honza]

Yes but a circle exists within a context. If you remove the context of a circle then it ceases to exist too. I'm thinking that I exist within a context. Some of that context is higher up (God) and some is lower down (beetle) and some is equal (people). I gather that we are all equal in many ways.....but yet there is highs and lows within it all.

[Honza]

Take the circle as an example once more. There is space around and within the circle. It does not exist by itself. Does I AM exist by itself?

[winter light]

My favorite teacher for spiritual science concepts is Itzhak Bentov. Below is an interview with him in 1978 that addresses a lot of what I think you are asking. He also wrote two books which for me were life altering and gave me a solid scientific foundation that I could apply to spirituality.

Itzhak Bentov ~ From Atom To Cosmos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMbeK_6ATxQ

[innerlight]

Originally Posted by Honza

Take the circle as an example once more. There is space around and within the circle. It does not exist by itself. Does I AM exist by itself?

Yes but a circle exists within a context. If you remove the context of a circle then it ceases to exist too.

Take both of your own examples.. Look at the circle. Take a good hard look at the circle.. Now put yourself in that circle. Sit there. Be one with the circle. Know that the circle is all that there is..

Now you are looking within a world where you assume there is separation between yourself and the circle. You assume that there is something outside of this circle. Because you "think" this to be the case. Because you created this circle to be so. Yet, truthfully you don't truly know if there is anything outside of that circle. You only assume that you think you know all there is to know about this circle. To fully understand this may help you understand something you struggle with.

Your traps through all of this is you are trying to analyze it and find it through your mind. And in doing so you will never truly fully comprehend what you are seeking.

[Honza]

Once you go beyond the mind is there ever any coming back? Can you become a person again? It sounds like enlightenment is an awful lot of commitment to something which cannot even be understood. I worry a lot about I AM because I feel it is a very powerful force which has no sentience. It is creation/destruction/silence/bliss etc. but is anyone actually there?

I'm not confident about I AM at all. Sorry.

[innerlight]

Originally Posted by Honza

Once you go beyond the mind is there ever any coming back? Can you become a person again? It sounds like enlightenment is an awful lot of commitment to something which cannot even be understood. I worry a lot about I AM because I feel it is a very powerful force which has no sentience. It is creation/destruction/silence/bliss etc. but is anyone actually there?

I'm not confident about I AM at all. Sorry.

When one expands their mind, no matter what it is, there is never a going back. If you learn truth, would you ever want to? If you were in an abusive relationship and saw the truth to it, and you left it.. Would you ever really want to go back to it?

So what is tripping you up is not necessarily I AM, but in the idea of oneness. That one becomes all so to speak. That there is a fear that you would lose your identity in the process, and that you would no longer be Honza. Is that what it is?

Oneness, or enlightenment, or I AM, whatever you want to call it, is never really said, as far as I know, to be a one off thing. You wake up, boom, you're there. The end of your journey. It's a never ending journey of growth, and expansion.

If one keeps their mind closed tightly to stuff, they may never learn or grow. That's not to say there should not be discernment in life. Otherwise you'd fall for anything.

Now to try to answer the question that you posted in the original comment in this thread, is there science to back up I AM? Well depends on what you are looking for. As there is science that backs up that we are all energy, and that energy exists all around us. So in some ways there is science that we are all connected through this energy.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Honza

Once you go beyond the mind is there ever any coming back? Can you become a person again? It sounds like enlightenment is an awful lot of commitment to something which cannot even be understood. I worry a lot about I AM because I feel it is a very powerful force which has no sentience. It is creation/destruction/silence/bliss etc. but is anyone actually there?

I'm not confident about I AM at all. Sorry.

You seem to be tormented Honza by ' I am ' , most of your Threads show it.
As for going beyond the mind what makes you think theirs no person there? Of course a person is there but with a different mind set, it's all about the way you view the world.
You will never get beyond the mind using the mind, you have you quiet it down, shut it up It's thoughts that stop you getting there. learning to disidentify yourself with your body, feelings and thoughts, and develop true detachment. Try some meditation it might help you.

[Honza]

My efforts are to achieve a clear conscience. Others talk about achieving a clear mind. The mind is not that much of a concern for me and to be honest I am glad I have one. God/Reality is all about conscience to me. It is a mixture of conscientiousness and unconscientiousness. I choose the path of conscientiousness. My mind can be conscientious. Therefore it does not bother me. I have a loving mind. It never occurred to me to try and pass beyond it.