How does one keep in Harmony ...

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Hi Miss H .

How does one get to the point / stage of knowing / understanding the mind of God whilst in a state of disharmony .

Do you see a connection with harmony and realization and disharmony with no realization . (just a thought) . .

x dazzle x

A thoughtful question, dazzle.

Let's dissect your ques..."How does one get to the point / stage of knowing / understanding the mind of God..." forget the 'whilst in disharmony' for the moment.

I love that you used the word 'whilst".

First, does one believe that it is possible to know and understand the Mind of God? (Many here don't.)

I do, bec He said so in Jeremiah 9:23-4...and it is inferred in many places - the Gita, also...which led to my openness to glimpses of Divine Mind.
So one must start with an inner solid belief that you can ---and could be'zapped' on a clear day with Divine Revelation!

So I will say, that sometimes in the darkest moments of your life (disharmony) - suffering, begging, heart-broken, desparate, say ----
Yes, you could be graced with understanding, a glimpse of Cosmic Consciousness - seeing a world in a grain of sand...
Which happens alot ' out of the blue'.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Belle

Sometimes a disease is a friend. There may be a teaching involved, there may be a nudge
to slow down, there may be a pursuit of humility as you are required to lean on others.

That may be so to some.

Disease is no friend of mine.

I will offer this to those that are interested...Jesus was said to be the image of the Father-
he said he did only what the Father wanted done...
there was not one person - at a distance - in a crowd on a hill - no one that was left unhealed -
that 'showed up' or had someone ask for them, even.

Disease is the product of something ''else'' ---it is not the the Will of God.
So, therefore, is no friend of mine.

(However, I used to think like the statement above. I seems like such a sweet
evolved way to think; Accept disease
as a lesson of some sort or even karma or even
something that is deserved...nope, not true in my playbook.)

There is a cure for everything. That is my story, my mindset and I'm stickin' to it.
(Otherwise, I'd be a pretty unsuccessful healer!!!)

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

A thoughtful question, dazzle.

Let's dissect your ques..."How does one get to the point / stage of knowing / understanding the mind of God..." forget the 'whilst in disharmony' for the moment.

I love that you used the word 'whilst".

First, does one believe that it is possible to know and understand the Mind of God? (Many here don't.)

I do, bec He said so in Jeremiah 9:23-4...and it is inferred in many places - the Gita, also...which led to my openness to glimpses of Divine Mind.
So one must start with an inner solid belief that you can ---and could be'zapped' on a clear day with Divine Revelation!

So I will say, that sometimes in the darkest moments of your life (disharmony) - suffering, begging, heart-broken, desparate, say ----
Yes, you could be graced with understanding, a glimpse of Cosmic Consciousness - seeing a world in a grain of sand...
Which happens alot ' out of the blue'.

Hi Miss H .

As always I would say there are many levels / layers to experiencing disharmony . There perhaps is disharmony that is skin deep and disharmony that is deep rooted . I was thinking also in regards to the dark night of the soul . Many have such an experience and awaken in some shape or form and many do not so it may depend on what energies lay behind the scenes that have brought forward such a dark night .


Perhaps if the disharmony is so deeply rooted then it may become difficult to transcend and allow another level of awareness to become them . It is possible I would say that an individual that has all ready reached a level of self awareness prior to their present incarnation places one’s self into an environment of disharmony just so this energy triggers their inner self related awareness . .

So I would say that disharmony doesn’t stand in the way of becoming self aware but to remain self aware one would be in harmony . .

x dazzle x

[7luminaries]

Miss H...what a beautiful response.
I think that it part of our life's work, a very beautiful part.
Learning to know & understand the soul of God as we are able to so do...that is, in our individual human expression of God.

God-Like...to your response, I agree and I would say that to remain self-aware, one would strive toward harmony. We would long for it.
And that also implies that one is self-aware in the sense of being aware of the reasons for the perception, knowing, or being in disharmony with oneself. Other words for harmony could be (in a sense) truth or integrity as they relate to the self, and by this, I mean to the soul, ultimately.

As to the deep-rooted disharmony and the dark night of the soul...for me, I have honoured my needs for forgiveness and healing from childhood, for a child, for a nurturing spiritual path, and so forth. Yet why is it so hard for us to honour our need for soul connection and real partner ship? My soul has been speaking, and so now, the past few years, I have begun to learn how to listen. Even where it has been the hardest.

I had lived for several years without addressing the deeper needs of my soul in the sense of love and partnership on the ground. Not in the sense of need (I've been alone for years, LOL...and happily ;) but in the sense of recognising and honouring true soul connection, and my authentic and honourable need to bring that into my life on the ground. It may not exist or be possible for me, but nonetheless these are among the deepest needs of my soul and I have learned that we ignore those needs at our peril and our eternal regret. The need to live authentically and without regret is motivation enough for me. I can't have that weight on my shoulders...and so I pushed myself off the edge, so to speak, even though it was trial by fire. It was then that I found my other feet and my other wings. The ones you get when you cast off the burden of mind ruled consciousness ;)

I was perfectly happy with myself, my work, and my son and my community work. Even opening my heart to its capacity for authentic love and the need for a soul love didn't directly bring me to the dark night. It was a combination of a few things, I'd say. First, opening the heart, then coming to terms with these deeper needs of my soul and then in so doing, 2nd, allowing a heart-led consciousness to come to the fore. And going through the dark night to get there (so to speak).

That last bit, learning to lead with the 4th, where your major orientation of consciousness shifts, is experienced by many as the dark night (not going from unaware to aware...long past...but from mind-led to heart-led). Because you feel as if you are losing your mind. We also experience it as a feeling or perception of dying, and in the spiritual sense, it is...a death of one way of being and the birth of another. I learned on the ground that, of course, death is only the beginning and that a little bit of sanity goes a long way, and by and large, it's overrated, but you do need that little bit.

To Miss H and to God-Like...

What do both of you see as key to obtaining Harmony,
and what is it about harmony that is so important?

Is it what the perception or knowing we are in harmony with ourselves reveals to us about who we are?
About what we need to understand about ourselves in order to reach a place of harmony?

Just wondering how you see it.
peace & blessings,
7L

"How can we keep the mind body in that state of harmony which will make it difficult if not impossible for disease to take a hold"

i dont know if we can. we can be as spiritual as a human being can be, but it still wont guarantee one who does this will not get sick. Wayne Dyer is an unfortunate example, who is likely one of the most spiritual people on the face of this earth, and has in the near past been diagnosed with leukemia. if wayne dyer can still get sick, what chance do we have? my question is based purely on the assumption that spirituality is the only factor that can inhibit us from getting sick. in reality, i dont believe this as i know there are also physical factors involved, that we have no control over. an example of this is taking a buddist monk, who lets say for argument sake, is not even familier with western culture. he meditates and studies the spiritual lifestyle daily, 24 hrs a day for years on end. now bring him to the united states, and as he walks down the street, tragically a tanker with toxic waste rolls in an accident beside him, and he gets covered in toxic waste. no person in their right mind would suggest seriously that he will just walk away from this accident, and never be effected by the long term effects of radiation and direct exposure to one of the most dangerous substances know to man. i'd put money on the assumption that he would get very sick, and eventually die.

my point is being spiritual in and of itself may (or may not) contribute to our abilities to combat disease, viruses, and other negative things out there that are constantly bombarding us, but its not the only factor. there are specific, deadly physical substances in the world that have a real effect on us whether we acknowledge them or not.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

To Miss H and to God-Like...

What do both of you see as key to obtaining Harmony,
and what is it about harmony that is so important?

Is it what the perception or knowing we are in harmony with ourselves reveals to us about who we are?
About what we need to understand about ourselves in order to reach a place of harmony?

Just wondering how you see it.
peace & blessings,
7L

Hi Amanda,

Sorry I didn't notice your reply .

What is key to obtaining harmony coincides with having peace within and one cannot have peace if there is an abscence of self love . Peace and harmony and love are very similar if not close relations .

How does one attain and express peace, love, harmony within one's self one may ask and I would have to say one would have to know self to know that peace, love and harmony .

x dazzle x

[Emmalevine]

Originally Posted by Student4Life1975

"How can we keep the mind body in that state of harmony which will make it difficult if not impossible for disease to take a hold"

i dont know if we can. we can be as spiritual as a human being can be, but it still wont guarantee one who does this will not get sick. Wayne Dyer is an unfortunate example, who is likely one of the most spiritual people on the face of this earth, and has in the near past been diagnosed with leukemia. if wayne dyer can still get sick, what chance do we have? my question is based purely on the assumption that spirituality is the only factor that can inhibit us from getting sick. in reality, i dont believe this as i know there are also physical factors involved, that we have no control over. an example of this is taking a buddist monk, who lets say for argument sake, is not even familier with western culture. he meditates and studies the spiritual lifestyle daily, 24 hrs a day for years on end. now bring him to the united states, and as he walks down the street, tragically a tanker with toxic waste rolls in an accident beside him, and he gets covered in toxic waste. no person in their right mind would suggest seriously that he will just walk away from this accident, and never be effected by the long term effects of radiation and direct exposure to one of the most dangerous substances know to man. i'd put money on the assumption that he would get very sick, and eventually die.

my point is being spiritual in and of itself may (or may not) contribute to our abilities to combat disease, viruses, and other negative things out there that are constantly bombarding us, but its not the only factor. there are specific, deadly physical substances in the world that have a real effect on us whether we acknowledge them or not.

Hmm I'm inclined to agree with you wholeheartedly.

Harmony can certainly be achieved on many levels, but as far as avoiding the pitfalls of physical life goes, I'm not sure it can ever be complete protection and whether it should be. I believe sometimes balancing mind, body and soul can produce wonderful results but sometimes illness and accidents occur, it's all part of living in a physcial world.

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Hi Amanda,

Sorry I didn't notice your reply .

What is key to obtaining harmony coincides with having peace within and one cannot have peace if there is an abscence of self love . Peace and harmony and love are very similar if not close relations .

How does one attain and express peace, love, harmony within one's self one may ask and I would have to say one would have to know self to know that peace, love and harmony .

x dazzle x

Hi there.
I agree that we need to know ourselves and to accept ourselves. It is in the details of that where things become both interesting & challenging, as everyone is individual.

So for you Daz...
What is it that you feel is important to know and to accept about yourself in order to feel at peace or in harmony with yourself?

Also, since life is an ongoing process of growth, learning and adjustment to change, to what degree do you feel your peace is dependent on knowing yourself and accepting yourself during those times of g/l/a to c?

And do you have an inner source or Source of faith and grace that can carry you through the periods of turmoil, adjustment, growth, and the general unknown? Do you have way of reaching out to that "mind (or heart) of God" in times of need? I find this is something that we can do on many levels. You didn't respond directly on this point to Miss H but I think this is a beautiful and meaningful point to raise in a discussion of inner harmony.

Also I note you talked about the dark night, which is why I discussed my experience. While experience is the different for everyone, I have noticed that many do go through some of the same experiences during a shift in consciousness. What is your experience on this?

peace & blessings,
7L

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

So for you Daz...

What is it that you feel is important to know and to accept about yourself in order to feel at peace or in harmony with yourself?


7L

In a way amanda there is an element of knowing what you are and what you are not and as to why one does what one does in relation to that . For instance if one lashes out through anger and causes sufferings to the many then there is an opportunity for one in that instance to know why those energies unfolded . If one acknowledges one’s inner sufferings were the cause through a lack of awareness of self then the relationship between the self and the estranged self has the opportunity to come together in harmony . There is only self but it can appear as if there is another entity that has it’s own expression that is swayed by the emotions, the senses, the ego and such likes and this can appear as being and expressing outside of one’s true self



So accepting everything that one is and is in expression of is the beginnings of a harmonious self . Perhaps acceptance can be likened as to taking the first step towards self realization .

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Also, since life is an ongoing process of growth, learning and adjustment to change, to what degree do you feel your peace is dependent on knowing yourself and accepting yourself during those times of g/l/a to c?


7L

As you know my first 18 years of life was of joy, peace, love and such likes and I wasn’t conscious of what is self, I did not know what it is that I am and it seemed at the time that it didn’t spoil my experiences of peace and love in those times etc ..

Only when there is a realization of what you are is there an understandings of what peace of self there is . It’s like having an eureka moment when one’s goes Ahh! I now see . . Life changes experiences come thick and fast but yet the self remains constant .

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

And do you have an inner source or Source of faith and grace that can carry you through the periods of turmoil, adjustment, growth, and the general unknown? Do you have way of reaching out to that "mind (or heart) of God" in times of need? I find this is something that we can do on many levels. You didn’t respond directly on this point to Miss H but I think this is a beautiful and meaningful point to raise in a discussion of inner harmony.



Also I note you talked about the dark night, which is why I discussed my experience. While experience is the different for everyone, I have noticed that many do go through some of the same experiences during a shift in consciousness. What is your experience on this?


7L

In regards to an inner source of faith there has and have been times when I have relied on a seemingly outer source where I called upon strength and such likes . In this respect there was a lack of strength within and at these times I pleaded for the strength so that I could rely on self and not rely on another . The relationship of self develops and one realizes that there is only self all along _ it’s just about connecting within and without with the same essence of intent for one to call upon strength one must be willing to be of strength for another . It’s how the world turns / goes round .

x daz x

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by God-Like

In a way amanda there is an element of knowing what you are and what you are not and as to why one does what one does in relation to that . For instance if one lashes out through anger and causes sufferings to the many then there is an opportunity for one in that instance to know why those energies unfolded . If one acknowledges one’s inner sufferings were the cause through a lack of awareness of self then the relationship between the self and the estranged self has the opportunity to come together in harmony . There is only self but it can appear as if there is another entity that has it’s own expression that is swayed by the emotions, the senses, the ego and such likes and this can appear as being and expressing outside of one’s true self

I can agree in the generic sense but the specific examples you briefly allude to do not apply directly to my own experiences. If you feel that they describe yours, then that is good for you to know of course. In particular, being under the sway of emotions is something I don't understand, unless you mean that we don't want to suffer unduly under chronic conditions such as depression or anxiety, or grief- or trauma-related stresses. Is that what you mean? For one who is centered and has always found a balance between heart and soul, and ever better over time as I've come to trust open and strengthen the heart, I've found the deep inclinations, preferences, knowings, and yes, emotions of the soul to be key to knowing self, to knowing purpose, to centreing and balance, and to living in alignment with your soul. Which I think is or is the primary aspect of the harmony under discussion here.

My specific examples have been knowing the self, and dealing with an ongoing absence of confirmation or support of my own knowings of self, and my own realisations of the purpose, work, capacity and the needs of my soul, from certain of those I reached out to in love and friendship. So I was you might say talking to a wall or reaching out for a hand that was never fully offered.

My challenges have been, like so many, and especially so many women or other of society's less valued, to stand up for what I know is right for me. When all the while others tell you that you are wrong, that you know very little of whatever is truly important, that your needs are trite and trivial and frankly completely meaningless, laughable even.

There are none, and there have been none, save my closest female friends and family to love me as I am in the most key, fundamental, and humanising role of supporting me in what I know is right for me. And likely there will be none in future because I have dared to live my own life and claim it as being worth a damn. I am not here to be exploited by feckless corporate peons nor road-tested by peter pans who like busty blondes, neither emotionally nor certainly physically, nor is my work nor my love nor my friendship a worthless thing of little value. Despite what you, he, they or whoever may say. Nay I say. With every breath I take, I know it is not so.

I know these things with deep certainty, despite how I am treated and regardless of whatever insults or platitudes (both are **) are thrown my way. And yet, to society at large, outside the grind of work, that is all I am valued for. I counter it with grace and dignity and focus, with precision and humour and directness and honesty. Yet I counter it everywhere (outside of focused religious & communal activities, or similar, where people bring their social standards). These values are not mine, and I do not honour them in the way I live my life and conduct myself. It is a terrible loss for humanity when the rules of the workplace become the rules by which we judge and treat and interact with another soul.

I reject that, and I always have, for myself or for anyone, and so people feel the need to grind me down and tell me I am nothing because I dare to believe that I am or the lowest person in any corner of the world is as important and worthy to be here as anyone. And so I have stood for my humanity and my values, have stood with my presence and my heart and my soul, for my worth at each moment despite everyone except a select few on the ground treating me as if I were disposable, at work, in life, in relationships. I reject that, and I always have. We are not disposable, interchangeable and replaceable, none of us.

If your life experience as a man has required conscious ongoing efforts to be seen and valued for who you truly are, to be given basic respect and honour and dignity, and yet if you strive to do right in all your relationships, regardless of how you are belitted and devalued and demeaned and objectified, sometimes with implicit or overt threat which is always potentially near at hand -- yes, if you face these indignities daily right to your face even, and even by those who purport to care for you beyond their ego, their lusts & their greed -- then I understand completely and I can sympathise. Regardless of your inner harmony, that is only half of it. Your inner harmony is not always the core issue then, or rather, it cannot be addressed or healed in isolation. Rather, the issue is also at least in part the lack of humanity we extend to one another, and thus our full measure of harmony cannot be realised. True harmony is more than just harmony of self (as I name it). It is harmony of self, of Self and of selves. Reflected or contained in the individuated consciousness, i.e. the self.

This gets squarely at the other aspect of ultimate harmony with self, the outer aspect. It cannot be done in isolation or with exclusive focus on self as "me". Whilst attaining inner harmony can be the work of a lifetime, it is only one aspect of harmony, ultimately. If attaining harmony is directed inward toward Spirit only, then it is isolated and cut off from the aspects of connection to Spirit through others, and through the collective consciousness. Ultimately this harmony is partial and unbalanced. It is only when we seek harmony through validating and accepting our connections with others, and with accepting those others as valid...seeking harmony with our connections to the collective...that we attain true or ultimate harmony of self. One which contains aspects of Self and selves as well. That is you and I coming into harmony with one another, through accepting and validating one another..and that is all of us finding our way toward harmony with each other.




So accepting everything that one is and is in expression of is the beginnings of a harmonious self . Perhaps acceptance can be likened as to taking the first step towards self realization .

Agreed. Acceptance is key to making peace with our faults and shortcomings...and with those of others.

Where have you found the most need or call for self-acceptance within yourself? And with those closest to you?

As you know my first 18 years of life was of joy, peace, love and such likes and I wasn’t conscious of what is self, I did not know what it is that I am and it seemed at the time that it didn’t spoil my experiences of peace and love in those times etc ..

Only when there is a realization of what you are is there an understandings of what peace of self there is . It’s like having an eureka moment when one’s goes Ahh! I now see . . Life changes experiences come thick and fast but yet the self remains constant .


In regards to an inner source of faith there has and have been times when I have relied on a seemingly outer source where I called upon strength and such likes . In this respect there was a lack of strength within and at these times I pleaded for the strength so that I could rely on self and not rely on another . The relationship of self develops and one realizes that there is only self all along _ it’s just about connecting within and without with the same essence of intent for one to call upon strength one must be willing to be of strength for another . It’s how the world turns / goes round .

Do you see Source as separate and disconnected? I would say there is interconnection and also distinct individuated consciousness both at the same time...This also holds true for the collective consciousness of self and others.

Also, what is of equal interest as far as self-knowledge and harmony goes, is what those occasions or periods were that caused you to reach out/it for Spirit and for inner strength?

Another thing...
You mention the relationship of self. I like to speak of it as different aspects...I call them self, Self, and others (other selves). I would say we are interconnected with all aspects, but if calling them all self ("me") leads only to a focus within with no consideration of others, then it's a facile excuse for narcissism and self-absorption of the individual consciousness.

Because despite our connections and our potential for ever-enlarging consciousness, we are still individuated consciousness housed in separate temples. To ignore or blur or disrespect this fact that we are all distinct individuated consciousness...and to deny or gloss over the critical fact of other-oriented focus as a key part of our spiritual development, is to miss the other pillar or foundational aspect that we all must grasp to move forward. I am not more or less valuable or worthy than you, but neither am I the same as you. We are both distinct individuated consciousness, for all we are connected, and we are both a part of our collective consciousness and of Spirit (or One).

I'm going to state my opinion here, so please don't take any of this as personally directed in any way. Perhaps you were touching on some of the same. But it's something I feel very strongly about, and I often hear it discussed in a very superficial and pat way, so I feel it's worth discussing with much more specificity.

To say I treated X poorly because I had a bad day or a bad year or a bad lifetime, but that all is self so whatever, and anyway they chose to partake in suffering because they were there (LOL) or because they loved me or they were my prisoner or my child or slave (or employee, LOL)...is nothing more than extreme self-indulgence and self-justification at its worst and perhaps cruelty as well, and it reflects a deep denial of personal responsibilities toward self and others. Simply because we are all connected and interrelated does not give me the right to choose cruelty or violence or abuse and perpetrate that on others in any form during my lifetime -- and also excuse it as "it's the plan". Sorry, but all that is on me. Even if the others "signed on" to suffer. Really? Perhaps yes and perhaps no. How can we possibly know with certainly? Who knows any of that but Spirit? Otherwise, why do the adepts roam the timeline to mitigate suffering if it was all in the cards? Because it wasn't all in the cards, and there is no way to know specifically what is or was in the cards.

We make assumptions that serve us, whether they are racist, sexist, elitist, capitalist, or now "spiritualist" ("it's in the plan for me to abuse X and exploit Y and steal from Z persons or enslave XYZ"). It's human nature to choose the route that says I do what I want (to you), or we do what we want (to you) and might makes right, and it's your karma. That's utter ****. You or we may be inflicting karma on me or them that was not "in the plan", but free will to choose harm & violence is rampant, and I must endure because you can't rise to the plan or perhaps because you're a violent or abusive straight-up so-and-so and so everyone around you will suffer. Major and minor deviations from the plan happens all the time, according to the masters. ALL the time. Pinning "**** (that) happens" on your watch on the "grand plan" and "we agreed to this specific outcome" is dangerous and may certainly be utter fallacy.

To think that nothing matters (in the usual sense) may be true over eternity, but isn't it just as true to say that everything matters in every moment? But to the human mindset, one belief or stance gives the excuse for being ultimately amoral and creating an amoral society and what we would call psychopathic individual outlooks (narcissistic, universe of one, without remorse or the ability to relate to others as separate and equally worthy individuals who think, feel, and bleed). Whereas the other says that everyone matters...and everything we think, say, and do matters. And tends to support a mindset that is humanitarian and supportive of individual and collective humanity.

Again, what this says to me is, there is NO set plan, and ultimately it ALL comes down to our choices.
So if we want inner harmony in its fullest sense, we need to partake in creating the outer harmony as well.


x daz x

peace & blessings,
7L