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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Crystals & Gemstones

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  #21  
Old 14-09-2018, 03:33 AM
Crystal canuck Crystal canuck is offline
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HI Bigjohn ! I didn't realize Bismith was a real element. I mainly know about Bismith, the really funky looking multi-colored ones that are marketed, and made in a lab. When talking about Bismuth, I would think most people refer to the synthetic kind. I will admit this is very beautiful, but I still can't bring myself to buy any man-made crystals. I must admit I've been very tempted.

Scientists are great ! I love all the progress humanity has made. Again I thought we were talking about synthetic or treated crystals when we were referring to modern day alchemists. In which case I still denounce them as fraudsters.

Synthetic rubies and emeralds have been around in true form for over a century. I still think it's cheating myself. I don't get excited over synthetics at all. I look at it sort of like a counterfeit bill. The beauty of these specimens is not in question, as you say, they have many if not all of the physical properties of a natural stone. I still don't think your wife will appreciate a fake, er sorry I mean, synthetic stone in her wedding band.

As for the metaphysical store, I think it would depend on the store itself and the owner. I think some may screen their inventory well, and other not so much or even know their supply.

I guess I would buy a specimen that hasn't been cleaned or touched up yet, provided the discount worth it.

Last edited by Crystal canuck : 14-09-2018 at 06:58 AM.
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  #22  
Old 15-09-2018, 04:09 AM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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Crystal canuk wrote
"When talking about Bismuth, I would think most people refer to the synthetic kind."

What is synthetic of the Element Bismuth being extracted from a mineral and then heated and slowly cooled down so it ends up as the Element Bismuth in crystal form?

You wrotr "Scientists are great ! I love all the progress humanity has made. Again I thought we were talking about synthetic or treated crystals when we were referring to modern day alchemists. In which case I still denounce them as fraudsters.

Synthetic rubies and emeralds have been around in true form for over a century. I still think it's cheating myself. I don't get excited over synthetics at all. I look at it sort of like a counterfeit bill. The beauty of these specimens is not in question, as you say, they have many if not all of the physical properties of a natural stone. I still don't think your wife will appreciate a fake, er sorry I mean, synthetic stone in her wedding band."

How do you know a diamond is a 'real' diamond - same goes for a ruby, sapphire, etc.?

People buy Tanzanite and rarely if ever find out it was produced in a lab in the Russia Federation. Same goes for diamonds, etc. How does one really know?

How many people have purchased a piece of quartz that was never cleaned up, never touched up? I would say very few people have seen those specimens for sale.

Look at a 6" double terminated quartz specimen that is perfectly clear and is perfect in all respects. The specimen has no growth patterns. How would anyone ever believe the specimen is a result of sand or quartz being melted, the impurities removed and what remains is poured into a mold. Once the mold is removed the piece is shaped and formed.

Who would ever believe the piece was not natural?

But then, the only way I know if a specimen is truly natural, be there and watch it be uncovered.
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  #23  
Old 15-09-2018, 04:22 AM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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Crystal canuk wrote
"When talking about Bismuth, I would think most people refer to the synthetic kind."

What is synthetic of the Element Bismuth being extracted from a mineral and then heated and slowly cooled down so it ends up as the Element Bismuth in crystal form?

You wrotr "Scientists are great ! I love all the progress humanity has made. Again I thought we were talking about synthetic or treated crystals when we were referring to modern day alchemists. In which case I still denounce them as fraudsters.

Synthetic rubies and emeralds have been around in true form for over a century. I still think it's cheating myself. I don't get excited over synthetics at all. I look at it sort of like a counterfeit bill. The beauty of these specimens is not in question, as you say, they have many if not all of the physical properties of a natural stone. I still don't think your wife will appreciate a fake, er sorry I mean, synthetic stone in her wedding band."

How do you know a diamond is a 'real' diamond - same goes for a ruby, sapphire, etc.?

People buy Tanzanite and rarely if ever find out it was produced in a lab in the Russia Federation. Same goes for diamonds, etc. How does one really know?

How many people have purchased a piece of quartz that was never cleaned up, never touched up? I would say very few people have seen those specimens for sale.

Look at a 6" double terminated quartz specimen that is perfectly clear and is perfect in all respects. The specimen has no growth patterns. How would anyone ever believe the specimen is a result of sand or quartz being melted, the impurities removed and what remains is poured into a mold. Once the mold is removed the piece is shaped and formed.

Who would ever believe the piece was not natural?

But then, the only way I know if a specimen is truly natural, be there and watch it be uncovered.
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  #24  
Old 15-09-2018, 05:31 AM
Crystal canuck Crystal canuck is offline
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You bring up some interesting points. At some point you must have faith in your supplier, that being said, your supplier must be reputable. A trained gemologist can many times tell the difference between synthetic and natural. Not with all stones of course, but some synthetic do show differences that a gemologist can recognize. Of course there are some stones like synthetic diamonds that are impossible to differentiate. The diamond industry is highly regulated, and certified diamond dealers would rather sell their left foot than touch a fake or be known for selling a fake.

I have actually received several large specimens from China with the dirt still attached, fairly raw specimens for sure. Some of my really large crystal clusters have a couple broken points and irregularities, you can certainly tell they weren't touched up or " edited " in any way.

If I was to look at a perfectly clear and perfectly formed quartz with no growth patterns, it would be a no-brainer that this was not natural. There are some crystals that come extremely close to being perfect form, in fact some of my crystal clusters I have on display will have a couple of what would be considered perfectly formed crystals. ( on a large one with say 40 points at least 2 or 3 would be near perfect points ) but they would still show growth patterns and not be perfectly clear.

When we are talking synthetic diamonds and rubies made in a lab, these come really close if not perfect replicas of the real thing, however for the most part I find heated/treated and synthetic crystals fairly easy to spot. Mostly in crystals I am familiar with of course. Mainly because I am a stone nerd ( sometimes a stoned nerd ) and it's one of my only hobbies and passions.

Most sellers are actually quite honest, at least the Chinese I deal with. They are great to do business with and will tell you flat out if it's treated or if they don't know. Nowadays I use the Chinese almost exclusively. I've said it before and I'll say it again :

If nothing in the description says it's natural and you don't bother to ask the seller, don't be surprized if the super cheap " quartz crystal " is not " natural quartz crystal "
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  #25  
Old 15-09-2018, 06:12 PM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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Crystal canuk wrote "A trained gemologist can many times tell the difference between synthetic and natural."

Not really. A trained gemologist can tell what kind a colored gemstone is but for the most part can not tell the difference between natural and man made. The same applies to a colored gemstone that has been heat treated.

Regarding dyed, lead filled, etc. - a gemologist can detect these on colored gemstones.
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  #26  
Old 16-09-2018, 01:17 AM
Crystal canuck Crystal canuck is offline
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Hi Bigjohn ! The average layman might have a hard time telling apart man-made and natural, but any gemologist that is half decent can tell the difference. With a ruby, they can tell if it's synthetic by the residual traces of chemicals from the manufacturing process. They can also tell buy the growth curves, synthetic rubies have a more curved growth line. You must see this under a microscope to tell the difference.

With Sapphires it's even more easy, you don't even need a microscope to perform the " breath test " A natural sapphire won't cloud as quickly.

As for heat treated stones, they are also identified easily with the right equipment. I can usually tell without equipment just by looking at the over saturated color. ( I look at way too many stones in my free time ) I have lots of info on this in print from scientific publications, but here is a link to the most reputable site I know : GIA

https://www.gia.edu/gem-treatment

An fake emerald is easily identified under a dichroscope. Also you can usually tell by it's color even without equipment.

Diamonds are a little trickier as the process has improved in making the synthetics, however even these can be identified with a thermal test.

To my knowledge, there is no stone that a certified professional can't identify.

Last edited by Crystal canuck : 16-09-2018 at 05:25 AM.
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  #27  
Old 17-09-2018, 12:59 AM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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Crystal canuck wrote "The average layman might have a hard time telling apart man-made and natural, but any gemologist that is half decent can tell the difference."

You provided this link https://www.gia.edu/gem-treatment which if you look at the 8th paragraph, emphasizes the issues of being able to tell man-made from natural. It is not as easy as you claim.

If you get gems that have been certified by certain labs, they can tell you what the gemstone is but in many cases can not tell if it was man-made or natural.

About 15 years ago I visited the largest market for colored stones. Even to this day I wonder...... if the blue star Sapphire a woman presented to me was real. All I can say it was gorgeous!
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  #28  
Old 17-09-2018, 05:14 AM
Crystal canuck Crystal canuck is offline
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Hi Bigjohn ! I get what you are saying The really good synthetics are hard to tell by the naked eye. I think I can tell many specimens by the eye, but that is not always the case of course, there are some very good lab specimens once and a while.

With these really high quality lab created stones ( and they would have to be good quality because many you could tell with enough practice ) you would have to be a professional, and most likely need sensitive equipment to get an accurate result. I was just saying that a real professional does have some way of finding this out, but yeah there is some really good lab specimens that would fool most if not all, and have no way to tell without a really good pro with pro tools. There is always a way to identify with the right lab/gemologist. Honestly I am not trying to argue with you, but from all my research in the matter, there is always some way of finding this information out, albeit not always easy or readily available. And of course this wouldn't be possible to do when you are shopping for a stone at a market or online.

So maybe we could meet in the middle and say something like: Realistically not distinguishable but technically identifiable

I still think I can tell over 90 % of them with my eyes, and I think you probably could too if you really thought about it, and thought of what to look for.

If you're really in doubt, I wouldn't buy the item. There is a lot of scammers and not worth the risk if you don't really know your source. I would like to think your blue sapphire was real, but then again I would like to think most people are honest. I think synthetics should be banned. If you can't afford a sapphire or ruby pick another beautiful stone that might be more plentiful like a garnet or something. Ruins it for everyone else, all this fake stuff on the market

If you can't afford a Rolex, don't buy a " Rolox ", buy the Timex, it's not pretending to be a Rolex, but it's still a good watch.
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