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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Death & The Afterlife

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  #11  
Old 12-10-2010, 01:49 AM
mac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules
I'm a firm believer in when your time is up, it's up. No matter what age or what circumstance. Yes even dare I say it, abortion or miscarriage. I believe the soul makes a contract for this journey long before it's incarnated ..ergo .. no accident

Firm belief is no substitute - I suggest - for understanding.

Yes you dare say abortion and miscarriage but in that you're wrong.

But you're weighing apples and pears. Of course when your time is up, it's up. That's not to say that it was pre-set to that exact moment, though. Think it through and you'll see how...

Each individual has a 'game plan' for life but that doesn't mean that events in the physical can't impact that plan. What happens isn't necessarily what was planned....
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  #12  
Old 12-10-2010, 01:49 AM
Lynn Lynn is offline
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Hello


I always remember what me Dad told me. When one's number s up its up. YE go. He was 56 and had a massive heart attack and did not go right off....but I knew he would go. I knew in me heart that he would worry endlessly on the next event and being a burden. His time was simply DONE.

I had a NDE event and I did not go. From that I suffer with day in day out pain....but I knew that me life path was not yet done. I knew coming to this life I had something to do. It simply was NOT me time to go.

There are so many times where me mate and I should have died behind the wheel of the car. Where somehow in a spin out we never went over a cliff. Where we had a car come into out lane and NOT hit us. Simply was not OUR time to go. ( good driving skills on his part might too play a role) but not our time.


Lynn
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  #13  
Old 12-10-2010, 01:55 AM
Verunia Verunia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac
What happens isn't necessarily what was planned....

Yes, I am going to be one of those people, and ask for proof Naah just kidding.

Sure we can derive meaning from possibly meaningless events, such as "this was supposed to happen" or "everything happens for a reason", but what if things are planned in a way we cannot possibly perceive or understand? To us it may seem meaningless or random.

But maybe our minds cannot comprehend the actuality of life itself.
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  #14  
Old 12-10-2010, 01:55 AM
mac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn
Hello


I always remember what me Dad told me. When one's number s up its up. YE go. He was 56 and had a massive heart attack and did not go right off....but I knew he would go. I knew in me heart that he would worry endlessly on the next event and being a burden. His time was simply DONE.

I had a NDE event and I did not go. From that I suffer with day in day out pain....but I knew that me life path was not yet done. I knew coming to this life I had something to do. It simply was NOT me time to go.

There are so many times where me mate and I should have died behind the wheel of the car. Where somehow in a spin out we never went over a cliff. Where we had a car come into out lane and NOT hit us. Simply was not OUR time to go. ( good driving skills on his part might too play a role) but not our time.


Lynn

Cause and effect Lynn - if something doesn't have a cause, there won't be an effect. You don't go over a cliff because the momentum of the vehicle wasn't sufficient to take you over. A car crosses into your travel lane and doesn't hit you because an unseen cause resulted in that effect....

You can thank god, angels and the rest and it doesn't matter if you're wrong or right. Only after passing over when we get to see the records will we know the cause for sure... and by that time it won't matter anyway.

Just one more event in life's rich tapestry...
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  #15  
Old 12-10-2010, 02:15 AM
mac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verunia
Yes, I am going to be one of those people, and ask for proof Naah just kidding.

Sure we can derive meaning from possibly meaningless events, such as "this was supposed to happen" or "everything happens for a reason", but what if things are planned in a way we cannot possibly perceive or understand? To us it may seem meaningless or random.

But maybe our minds cannot comprehend the actuality of life itself.

I think I'd partly agree with your last statement/suggestion.

Who's to say, though, that some may comprehend more than others?

Of course everything happens for a reason - cause and effect - but not necessarily the reason we're thinking of or seeking.

Meaningless or random may be exactly that - not planned or significant, not in the 'game plan'. But always an experience has the potential for benefit to be drawn from it - accepting that, though, is often hard.
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  #16  
Old 12-10-2010, 02:16 AM
Jules
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac
Firm belief is no substitute - I suggest - for understanding.
Ok, my understanding. My truth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac
Yes you dare say abortion and miscarriage but in that you're wrong.
In your OPINION I'm wrong. Again, my understanding, my truth. I'm all for LISTENING to other people's opinions, perceptions and truths. And I'm also big enough to accept change of thought IF it resonates with me, if it doesn't, then out it goes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac
But you're weighing apples and pears. Of course when your time is up, it's up. That's not to say that it was pre-set to that exact moment, though. Think it through and you'll see how...
I'm not weighing apples and pears. I do believe it's pre-set. Just like our whole life is.I've had too many occassions where I've been brought back from the brink of death to believe any differently now. If I wasn't meant to be here, doing what I'm doing I wouldn't be. And Ok, the choices we make may veer us off the pathway but the very next thought can potentially put us back on track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac
Each individual has a 'game plan' for life but that doesn't mean that events in the physical can't impact that plan. What happens isn't necessarily what was planned....
That's where I think you are wrong .. but that's your opinion, your truth and I certainly wouldn't try and change that. I don't belief life has a game plan. For me, everything happens for a reason, and I hold that very firmly in my heart. I've had too many synchronistic events happen to believe otherwise.
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  #17  
Old 12-10-2010, 02:19 AM
Lynn Lynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac
Cause and effect Lynn - if something doesn't have a cause, there won't be an effect. You don't go over a cliff because the momentum of the vehicle wasn't sufficient to take you over. A car crosses into your travel lane and doesn't hit you because an unseen cause resulted in that effect....

You can thank god, angels and the rest and it doesn't matter if you're wrong or right. Only after passing over when we get to see the records will we know the cause for sure... and by that time it won't matter anyway.

Just one more event in life's rich tapestry...
]

Hmmmmm


I will share one case. WE hit a child full hit a child the car went into a spin . The road was slick with snow. We were heading up the hill to our home. It was dark we went around " accident corner " we later learned that for the death the happened there at the sametime we were in our spin out.

What he hit was NOT a child but the Spirit of that child that was killed that same night many year's earlier, we spun out like it was a physical event. We spun full around stopping right before hitting the rock face there. We got out and ran to look to see whom we hit and as this child came out of NO WHERE. There was NO ONE there. We got back in the car and it would NOT start. We had to leave it there for the night and walk the rest of the way home.

The next AM we walked down to get the car and there was someone walking their dog there and said to us OH ye must have had a run in with so an so.....many leave their car parked here on that night. The night of his death. We were like OMG .


We had a cross placed there on that spot so that other's would know to be careful there.

IT was not our time but this child did give us a warning to be more careful there I feel. A few year's later that same spot claimed the life of a friend of mine. He was driving drunk.

NOW sadly there are three crosses there as it claimed yet another life.

Lynn
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  #18  
Old 12-10-2010, 02:28 AM
mac
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules
Ok, my understanding. My truth.

In your OPINION I'm wrong. Again, my understanding, my truth. I'm all for LISTENING to other people's opinions, perceptions and truths. And I'm also big enough to accept change of thought IF it resonates with me, if it doesn't, then out it goes.

[color=Black]I'm not weighing apples and pears. I do believe it's pre-set. Just like our whole life is.I've had too many occassions where I've been brought back from the brink of death to believe any differently now. If I wasn't meant to be here, doing what I'm doing I wouldn't be. And Ok, the choices we make may veer us off the pathway but the very next thought can potentially put us back on track.

That's where I think you are wrong .. but that's your opinion, your truth and I certainly wouldn't try and change that. I don't belief life has a game plan. For me, everything happens for a reason, and I hold that very firmly in my heart. I've had too many synchronistic events happen to believe otherwise.

It all comes down to your beliefs, Jules. There is no 'my truth' only 'my belief'. I agree wholeheartedly that if anything doesn't appeal to your reason then reject it - but I'd suggest that belief is not a good substitute for what you don't understand. I'll leave that with you....

I don't have any beliefs as substitutes for what I can't follow fully. Your excusrsions to the edge of death may indeed have been an important part of your experiences but that doesn't necessarily make significant similar ones for others... It's the interpretation of these events which is so important. For some they may be significant but it's important not to see every such event that way.

I have NO personal, individual truths. By now I've accepted that my direction has been steered in various ways but always allowing for my freewill to dominate should I choose - and I do choose.

Without fail every life has a 'game plan' and belief about it can not change the actuality. BUT not every life is highly orchestrated or defined.

The plan may be for a gentle meander through the backwaters just as much as it may be for another to steer great events in the physical, events which will help many to progress spiritually in ways we can never know but may be able to appreciate if we open our eyes to these possibilities....

Of course everything happens for a reason - just not necessarily the reason we may think....
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  #19  
Old 12-10-2010, 02:44 AM
mac
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn
]

Hmmmmm


I will share one case. WE hit a child full hit a child the car went into a spin . The road was slick with snow. We were heading up the hill to our home. It was dark we went around " accident corner " we later learned that for the death the happened there at the sametime we were in our spin out.

What he hit was NOT a child but the Spirit of that child that was killed that same night many year's earlier, we spun out like it was a physical event. We spun full around stopping right before hitting the rock face there. We got out and ran to look to see whom we hit and as this child came out of NO WHERE. There was NO ONE there. We got back in the car and it would NOT start. We had to leave it there for the night and walk the rest of the way home.

The next AM we walked down to get the car and there was someone walking their dog there and said to us OH ye must have had a run in with so an so.....many leave their car parked here on that night. The night of his death. We were like OMG .


We had a cross placed there on that spot so that other's would know to be careful there.

IT was not our time but this child did give us a warning to be more careful there I feel. A few year's later that same spot claimed the life of a friend of mine. He was driving drunk.

NOW sadly there are three crosses there as it claimed yet another life.

Lynn

So where does that story take us....?
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  #20  
Old 12-10-2010, 03:22 AM
Jules
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac
It all comes down to your beliefs, Jules. There is no 'my truth' only 'my belief'. I agree wholeheartedly that if anything doesn't appeal to your reason then reject it - but I'd suggest that belief is not a good substitute for what you don't understand. I'll leave that with you....
I beg your pardon? my belief, my truth, my understanding. My words. I may not have your diction, but I'll tell you one thing I have got that you don't get out of books. Wisdom. Compassion. Integrity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mac
I don't have any beliefs as substitutes for what I can't follow fully. Your excusrsions to the edge of death may indeed have been an important part of your experiences but that doesn't necessarily make significant similar ones for others... It's the interpretation of these events which is so important. For some they may be significant but it's important not to see every such event that way.
Mac. You will find I don't preach. Nor do I say what I don't understand. I never have and never will EVERYBODY has their own views, their own opinions. I give mine freely, openly and honestly. I DO NOT expect people to take my word as gospel. They take what they want from it, if anything at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mac
I have NO personal, individual truths. By now I've accepted that my direction has been steered in various ways but always allowing for my freewill to dominate should I choose - and I do choose.
And that's exactly what I've done and believe, I've chosen to live this life and accepted I've been steered in the right direction when I've veered off the path.I KNOW without doubt that I have freewill but some things are just meant to be and can't be changed .. and that situation then sets off a whole chain of events .. everything happening for a reason. synchronicity at it's best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac
Without fail every life has a 'game plan' and belief about it can not change the actuality. BUT not every life is highly orchestrated or defined.

The plan may be for a gentle meander through the backwaters just as much as it may be for another to steer great events in the physical, events which will help many to progress spiritually in ways we can never know but may be able to appreciate if we open our eyes to these possibilities...

Of course everything happens for a reason - just not necessarily the reason we may think....
Definately not! it's all relative. Good v bad. You are right though Not every life has to be a drama does it? of course it can be a gentle meander. But what do we learn through mainly? Pain, hurt, sorrow, fear. They can give us our biggest lessons imaginable, consequently raising our vibrations/energies and progressing to a greater understanding on a spiritual/personal level ensuring balance within the two seperates, becoming as one. Becoming consciousness. I Am.
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