Differences between Indian beliefs and New Age

Some people are strictly in it for the fame, power and money. That is to be expected. Then there are the tribal people, some so desperate for a little money, they are selling sacred, secret knowledge that has long been passed down. Personally, I've never seen any American Indian people in the ranks of those who make fortunes from selling 'Native American' spirituality to non-Indian people.

I think the Victorian Spiritualists deserve some accolades
they managed to develop their own culture and inculcated themselves

they didn't copy or borrow from anyone that wasn't already their's

Ouija board by Parker Bros.
Seances etc

very American/British/Western

developed its own folklore

Originally Posted by Troll_ov_Grimness

I think the Victorian Spiritualists deserve some accolades
they managed to develop their own culture and inculcated themselves

they didn't copy or borrow from anyone that wasn't already their's

Ouija board by Parker Bros.
Seances etc

very American/British/Western

developed its own folklore

Yes, but I have to wonder where are the Foxx Sisters now ?

Originally Posted by Wisa'ka

Yes, but I have to wonder where are the Foxx Sisters now ?

dead

lol..

and the whole movement died out sometimes in the 90s

(TRAILER) Poltergeist

It was very much en vogue for a long time
as a kid "light as a feather stiff as a board", "bloody mary three times into the mirror", and ouija boards were popular on halloween, every halloween
not sure if that is really still popular

once the internet came out it pressured people i think to abandon paranormal fears and curiosity

*

the Fox sisters were three sisters from New York who played an important role in the creation of Spiritualism. The three sisters were Leah Fox (1814–1890), Margaret Fox (also called Maggie) (1833–1893) and Kate Fox (1837–1892). The two younger sisters used "rappings" to convince their much older sister and others that they were communicating with spirits. Their older sister then took charge of them and managed their careers for some time. They all enjoyed success as mediums for many years.
In 1888 Margaret confessed that their rappings had been a hoax and publicly demonstrated their method. She attempted to recant her confession the next year, but their reputation was ruined and in less than five years they were all dead, with Margaret and Kate dying in abject poverty.

Originally Posted by Troll_ov_Grimness

dead

lol..

and the whole movement died out sometimes in the 90s

(TRAILER) Poltergeist

It was very much en vogue for a long time
as a kid "light as a feather stiff as a board", "bloody mary three times into the mirror", and ouija boards were popular on halloween, every halloween
not sure if that is really still popular

once the internet came out it pressured people i think to abandon paranormal fears and curiosity

*

the Fox sisters were three sisters from New York who played an important role in the creation of Spiritualism. The three sisters were Leah Fox (1814–1890), Margaret Fox (also called Maggie) (1833–1893) and Kate Fox (1837–1892). The two younger sisters used "rappings" to convince their much older sister and others that they were communicating with spirits. Their older sister then took charge of them and managed their careers for some time. They all enjoyed success as mediums for many years.
In 1888 Margaret confessed that their rappings had been a hoax and publicly demonstrated their method. She attempted to recant her confession the next year, but their reputation was ruined and in less than five years they were all dead, with Margaret and Kate dying in abject poverty.

Wonder if their journey from this world was a good one ?

I must disagree with your viewpoints on New Agers.

I do not necessarily disagree with all of it; forgive me for saying so but I wish to point out I believe your viewpoint to be incredibly biased.

Those "New Agers" of which you speak are not those, in my opinion, who truly wish to follow a path of spirituality. "New Agers" are not necessarily neo-pagans. They are those sorts of people who have been brought in as one would to a pop culture fandom. They are not interested in the spiritual or religious side of things. But I know many who follow a neo-pagan tradition and do so from their heart, and make no money from it. Money or currency of any kind taints the traditions we work so hard to follow.


I was born and raised in the southern United States. To the best of my knowledge I have no blood ties anywhere in my family history to the native peoples here. I am a stranger in this land, though my mother, my mother's mother, and my great-grandmother, have all been born here. We are all strangers.

I will always be a stranger to this land. Many neo-pagans that follow an eclectic path do so because they have no purity of bloodline or of culture. I follow a tradition that is made up mostly of European/Germanic/Celtic ideals because at my core that is who I am. My ancestors came from there, even if I did not. You cannot hold it against us who have not had the cultural purity that you possibly had the priviledge of having.

That does not stop me from admiring or honoring the spirits and ancestors of the native peoples of this land. I honor them because I am living in their land, on their soil. I am a stranger here, yet here I am.

I am not native, nor do I try to follow a native path. I might wear a small feather in my hair during my private prayers or rituals (I don't, usually, I simply say this as an example) to remind myself of this fact, and to honor the spirits of this land that have been here since before time was. I hang a dream net above my bed not because I think it's fascinating, or I am trying to emulate Native American culture, but because I wish to honor the peoples who have created the tradition. (Though I realize that many native cultures believe the popularity of dream nets has resulted in what they consider a misunderstood fandom and cultural appropriation.) I do this because the spirits of this land are unique and I am in their domain, even if I am not kin to their people. I am removed from the land of my people and in a place which has open doors to more cultures than I could count.

So how could a follower of neo-pagan traditions not be influenced by so many merging paths?

All I have of what could possibly be my ancient culture, that of the Germanic pre-Christian culture, are snippets of things written in a language no longer spoken except by scholars who would dissect it. Because I was born in an America so drastically transformed, I don't have a cultural religious identity that I can call my own. So can you really blame neo-pagans, especially those in North America, for being so eclectic and have, as you say, "obvious mixing" in their traditions when there is no cultural purity to be taught to them? There are no whole pagan communities here. We are scattered in a predominately Christian society. Where are we to learn a "true" path?



My apologies for any offense taken, no offense was meant. Just as much as you wish to distinguish true native traditions with "native pop culture" or "cultural appropriation" I ask for you to please distinguish between neo-traditions of spirituality and "new agers."

Peace and light

I live in Montreal
the kahnawake mohawk reserve is right outside of town
the mohawk are as much a part of montreal as I am
and I mean the city of montreal and the culture
we share space

but given the distance between my upbringing in the west island and mohawk territory I've had few encounters with mohawk people. some who went to my high school were the only ones I knew I recognized their accent but otherwise they fit in with the rest of the kids . i don't have any particular affinity to native people I just thought this thread was interesting

I really disagree with the person directly above me

My point was that growing up in the 90s wasn't cultural appropriation
it was my culture and had an effect on the way I thought
and Victorian spiritualism is about as close to Christianity as one could get without being Christian. I don't particularly like it but I acknowledge that it was a legit form of populism

the ouija board was a novelty that captured people's imagination and so was the motion picture camera . i cherish memories of movie magic and this kind of populism because it was really about the wonder of mystery as silent as first nations people are on the sacred so were westerners we treated the same 'beyond' with as much reverence, but in a different cultural context

I think anytime you take something out of cultural context you risk not understanding it

I need to force myself to compare Shinto to H. P. Lovecraft to try to understand, and it is not a perfect match, but I do try really hard to find a touchstone

I think reiki owes more to therapeutic touch and the Christian laying-on-of-hands than readily admitted, and the disconnect it has from authentic populism is harming the new age community because they can't make sense of it either

Originally Posted by Wisa'ka

Wonder if their journey from this world was a good one ?

its strange but the knocks they were supposedly lying about,
the rappings

are actually very common

When I'm in communion as a medium I often hear creaking noises and when I am not and trying to sleep the noises are not there.

I think when the foxx sisters originally made their case known it might have been with a degree of honesty, but I think shamans or mediums who ply their trade often find that they have to begin lying to get into the money, and so they cheapen their practice. it is not to say that it is all a lie.

Originally Posted by Tanith

I must disagree with your viewpoints on New Agers.

I do not necessarily disagree with all of it; forgive me for saying so but I wish to point out I believe your viewpoint to be incredibly biased.

Those "New Agers" of which you speak are not those, in my opinion, who truly wish to follow a path of spirituality. "New Agers" are not necessarily neo-pagans. They are those sorts of people who have been brought in as one would to a pop culture fandom. They are not interested in the spiritual or religious side of things. But I know many who follow a neo-pagan tradition and do so from their heart, and make no money from it. Money or currency of any kind taints the traditions we work so hard to follow.


I was born and raised in the southern United States. To the best of my knowledge I have no blood ties anywhere in my family history to the native peoples here. I am a stranger in this land, though my mother, my mother's mother, and my great-grandmother, have all been born here. We are all strangers.

I will always be a stranger to this land. Many neo-pagans that follow an eclectic path do so because they have no purity of bloodline or of culture. I follow a tradition that is made up mostly of European/Germanic/Celtic ideals because at my core that is who I am. My ancestors came from there, even if I did not. You cannot hold it against us who have not had the cultural purity that you possibly had the priviledge of having.

That does not stop me from admiring or honoring the spirits and ancestors of the native peoples of this land. I honor them because I am living in their land, on their soil. I am a stranger here, yet here I am.

I am not native, nor do I try to follow a native path. I might wear a small feather in my hair during my private prayers or rituals (I don't, usually, I simply say this as an example) to remind myself of this fact, and to honor the spirits of this land that have been here since before time was. I hang a dream net above my bed not because I think it's fascinating, or I am trying to emulate Native American culture, but because I wish to honor the peoples who have created the tradition. (Though I realize that many native cultures believe the popularity of dream nets has resulted in what they consider a misunderstood fandom and cultural appropriation.) I do this because the spirits of this land are unique and I am in their domain, even if I am not kin to their people. I am removed from the land of my people and in a place which has open doors to more cultures than I could count.

So how could a follower of neo-pagan traditions not be influenced by so many merging paths?

All I have of what could possibly be my ancient culture, that of the Germanic pre-Christian culture, are snippets of things written in a language no longer spoken except by scholars who would dissect it. Because I was born in an America so drastically transformed, I don't have a cultural religious identity that I can call my own. So can you really blame neo-pagans, especially those in North America, for being so eclectic and have, as you say, "obvious mixing" in their traditions when there is no cultural purity to be taught to them? There are no whole pagan communities here. We are scattered in a predominately Christian society. Where are we to learn a "true" path?



My apologies for any offense taken, no offense was meant. Just as much as you wish to distinguish true native traditions with "native pop culture" or "cultural appropriation" I ask for you to please distinguish between neo-traditions of spirituality and "new agers."

Peace and light

About your earlier question regarding hair - Many tribal men after conquest and containment grew or kept their hair long as a sign of solidarity, even the ones who once wore their hair in scalp locks.

Pawnee man of the late 19th century



When non-Indians attempt to follow native spirituality they are sometimes suckered into paying hefty fees by other non-Indians who know so little. Such resulted in the sweat lodge deaths in Sedona Arizona.

Originally Posted by Native spirit

The way i see it is everyone believes in something be it religeon beliefs or anything else but no one should benefit from anothers beliefs but this does happen with the Native People everyone still thinks that the Native people still live in tepees, this is not the case the Native people live on reservations in sub standard conditions, some live in houses,
what the Native learn is passed down generation to generation.its not taught and is sacred to the tribe.
new age is taking bits from everywhere and putting it together so its a new concept
the ideas they have are not their own, do u see a new age person making money and giving it to the original people whos ideas they are using? the answer is no.
they are quick to tell everyone their ideas and everything else.but the plan is to make money/ which is in complete contrast to to the Native people.


Namaste

Native Spirit, how do you feel about not being able to say ****a Tanka, the Lakota name for the Great Mystery here ? Should we just substitute letters with other symbols ?

Example - W@nka Tanka