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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Paganism

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  #21  
Old 25-06-2012, 12:18 PM
she who plays
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzz
I am not on the same page with a lot of the postings on this thread. My own inquiry has led me to embrace both M and F in order to know the other. It is not M that has been steering the planet to doom, it is the fascination with a mind based way of being. Niether M or F are to be negated from in a true search for balance and wholeness. At the same time both M and F have nought to do with gender in the context of what we are talking about.

There's nothing inherently bad about the conscious mind's restraining and limiting mechanism. It's nature is to go towards structure and form. Society has benefited from that, but also suffered because it's gone too far in that direction.
The Virgin became pious and obsessive about rule-making. He shunned the love of the Mother.
When the Virgin becomes too full of itself, in any situation, the Harlot wreaks havok and chaos to bring balance to the situation. This is what is happening now with revivals of the old religions and spiritual ways. The importance of the subconscious mind is returning.

Male/Female can be merely a biological distinction based on genitalia. Beyond that are meta-physical ideas of masculine/feminine that have helped the organisms survive together through evolution. Personally I am not really talking here about body or genitalia. I'm discussing 'what are the associations with feminine/masculine'. The conscious, rule-making, planning, rational mind has been associated with Males because perhaps it is natural tendency, not because Females can't, or Males can't access subconscious being (Feminine association). It's just been as such through evolution.

One needs to capture the associations of gender and bend them to their will, because the reality is that what they are being associated with is our birth right and cannot be taken away from us through a silly role-playing game.
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  #22  
Old 25-06-2012, 12:23 PM
she who plays
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But in some sense, yes I am also talking exactly about genitalia and body. The body is also a crystalized thought, and we all have a body image, or images inside.
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  #23  
Old 25-06-2012, 01:39 PM
Mind's Eye
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Many people refer to the Divine Spirit as God and Father... but when you really think about it, this makes no sense and seems to be an idea originating out of those times when women were considered far below men.

The Divine Feminine, or Goddess is the oldest form of deity that mankind has known, her image is found in cultures from all over the world, dating back thousands of years before Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Many ancient cultures had their God's and Goddesses as well.

If you think about it, the concept of the Divine Feminine makes more sense than the masculine God or Father; for it is the feminine that becomes pregnant and gives births, thus creating life. If it were not for the women in the world, the human race would die out, and so there is the cycle of birth, death and rebirth or renewal; and this cycle is seen in the seasons, the cycles of the moon and in life all around us.... It is also said to be the cycle of the soul as it is born, dies, and is reborn into spirit.

The ancients seemed to understand the Divine and the cycles of life much better than we do today. They were one with nature and celebrated the Divine in all things. Today's religions see the world as fallen, evil and death as an enemy rather than a rebirth. The very ancient Divine Feminine is spoken against in their holy books and is even said to be something that angers the Divine Masculine Man in the heavens and calls his wrath down upon entire nations, (no joke, this is in the Bible.)

So which makes more sense to you, the Divine Feminine that gave birth to all things; and the cycles that all life goes through as they make their way back to the Divine? Or the Divine Masculine, who made all things with a wave of his hand and then lost control of his creation to a fallen angel... and now everything is cursed and in a state of sin and decay until he gets fed up and decides to pass a final judgement on every living soul for the mistake he made in creating Satan to begin with?
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  #24  
Old 25-06-2012, 08:21 PM
she who plays
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@Mind's Eye:

lol. :-)

Obviously it's already apparent what I believe...Although It's more like knowledge to me. It's a knowing, an understanding. It's a good, joyful feeling. It's not based on fear. It is pure acceptance. A mother loves all of her children equally. You see this as well in families. Usually is there favouritism with your mother..?

Anyway, I think you hit upon interesting points. I believe 'The Church' at some point in history canabalized the Mother Goddess religion and replaced it with a Masculine-privelaged dogma.

But ultimately, it's love that we wish for. We are always in love regardless of the form of how it comes to us. What I mean by 'we' is... people who are not judgemental.
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  #25  
Old 25-06-2012, 08:57 PM
she who plays
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Also, it's worth considering partly how we got into this whole religious judgemental mess in the first place. Mind, and presence were privelaged over body and absence. Mind relates to consciousness, body relates to energy. Energy is physical in its property but consciousness is non-physical. Death was feared because it was non-permanent, and any absences in life... even writing (versus speech) were, and still are considered life-less and a sign of death. Thus Heaven, and some idea of permanence, were venerated in religion. Obviously, the 'opposites' of heaven were called sin. Mother Earth took the hit.

Today, some of us are more intelligent. We know that energy is inextricably a part of consciousness. This is why it's called energy-consciousness, or 'non-dual dual'. Energy is thought in motion. Thus there is no seperation... no need to judge.
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  #26  
Old 25-06-2012, 10:18 PM
Mayflow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by she who plays
You seem to be untangling the connotations and associations with the warrior archetype.

To me, the warrior is a rebel. They are always protecting a free spirit and as such are situated in the self. She or he will never surrender. This is the mode of the warrior to me. The warrior is the other side of the lover. The lover is all about peace, but sometimes to attain peace she needs to transform into a more active state. :-)

There are many definitions though. Like you said, some like war for the sake of it. Some are not connected to Goddess, so they decide to go against the natural way and make life an uphill struggle (Life vs. them).

Yes, this works for me very well indeed. I take it you know a bit about Jungian psychology, then?
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  #27  
Old 26-06-2012, 12:24 AM
she who plays
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayflow
Yes, this works for me very well indeed. I take it you know a bit about Jungian psychology, then?

Little bits, vaguely. Only read a little bit about him. What stuck was his ideas of Anima and Animus, the inner male and inner female that complete each person's sense of identity. The word 'archetype' I just use in a sort of generic fashion.

I try to mostly use my own thinking from my experiences. I was inspired also by the pagan triple goddess concept, but to me its symbolism means something different than that of moon deity or the cycles of womanhood in accordance with seasons. The Mother to me = the womb of energy-consciousness in the void (God if you will). The other two aspects of her to me are Maiden and Nymph, or the human structure of mind-body that is the Mother's daughter with twin aspects reflecting the universal twin aspects. The purity of virginity is used symbolically to represent purity of consciousness as empty. Nymph is that stillness of the Maiden taken into movement and desire...energy.
The Wiccan concept is structured in a way I couldn't grasp fully. It wasn't as complete to me, and also drew too much symbolic division between male and female (What with sun gods and all). I make it simple for myself by saying that essentially she IS he, and he, she. literally and symbolically. It's a feminine symbol that is describing a trans-gender concept. Not a feminine symbol that is describing womanhood in contrast to manhood.
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  #28  
Old 26-06-2012, 12:35 AM
Neville
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Well it just shows you how really ignorant I am.

I thought everyone acknowledged both the divine feminine and divine masculine, both within and without the self. I mean. just what is the symbology behind the Pestle and Mortar ??? Is it not self evident to any Pagan?
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  #29  
Old 26-06-2012, 12:38 AM
Mayflow
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While admire Jung and the Anima theory, I am less convinced of the animus theory, because of a couple of reasons.

1. The anima is an interior female archetype, and I think this is an archetype representing the interior soul.

2. I think that whether one is female or male physically, the interior soul soul remains female in archetype, and by female I mean a creative interior energy.
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  #30  
Old 26-06-2012, 12:57 AM
Neville
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayflow
While admire Jung and the Anima theory, I am less convinced of the animus theory, because of a couple of reasons.

1. The anima is an interior female archetype, and I think this is an archetype representing the interior soul.

2. I think that whether one is female or male physically, the interior soul soul remains female in archetype, and by female I mean a creative interior energy.

Yet, like so many dualiies required to comprise the whole there can be no ♀ without ♂ and vice verse.
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