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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Paganism

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  #81  
Old 16-04-2012, 04:50 PM
LadyTerra
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Greetings Norseman:

Quote:
Originally Posted by norseman
Wickerman, there is a certain amount of legend mixed with the facts of the "Burning Times". The German Bishop [apparently] used the number of burnings in his small city [Ulm ?] and then just scaled the number up to the whole of Europe.
To the best of my knowledge, there were no burnings at all in Britain. The most well-known Witch Trial was the Pendle Witches who were subject to hanging. I do not know about Salem.
Sadly, Wiccans often continue the myths of Burning which, as I said, was mostly burnings of people who did not go along with the edicts of Rome - Albigensians, Cathars, etc.

So, yes it is history, but if we don't learn from history we are bound to repeat it - not Burnings but in general bigotry and persecution which still goes on today. Mankind is a very slow learner.



I think we are getting hung-up on semantics. The Salem Witch Trial are very well documented--in fact--my daughter won second place in the HistoryFair for her project concerning the subject.

How the people were put to death is not the point. The point is (why) they were put to death and what happens when we try to force our own opinions, religious, and political beliefs upon others.

Respecting the right of others to do their own research and decide for themselves--whether we agree with their conclusions (or not)--is the only way to prevent future atrocities.

Peace and Love on the path of your choice...

Blessed be...
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  #82  
Old 16-04-2012, 06:58 PM
norseman norseman is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Striding the hedge
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Lady Terra, it is not all semantics. The key question to ask is "How many witches were executed ?" - and the answer is "Not that many"

Put it down to hysteria and Catholic fanaticism mostly. The highest death toll were Christians who did not follow the edicts of Rome as I have said.
Certainly, there was a huge appetite in the population for someone to blame for all sorts of ills and acts of nature. For example, the Pendle Witches in England. A family was executed on the testimony of the youngest child of the family. An additional complication was that all worldly goods of a convicted witch went to their accuser. Sometimes the accusers were real witches diverting attention towards mentally ill people.

All I am saying about The Burning Times [and executions in general] is be careful. There is much about it that is frankly not true. The people executed were, in the main, devout Christians. In Britain, for example, the Cunning Folk were protected by the general population "because of their value" and were often called White Witches by writers.

Look here http://www.summerlands.com/crossroads/remembrance/burning.htm#5

This needs to be read fully and carefully.

Here is a sample
The Nine Million Martyrs were the invention of Matilda Gage, a 19th century feminist. In her book _Women, Church, and State_, Gage guessed that as many as nine million Witches died. Now, Gage had not studied the Burning Times in detail, nor did she cite any evidence to support her estimate. Moreover, she wrote long before historians had access to reliable information about the death toll. Her number is no more than a rough guess, concocted by a person who had no reliable data to go on. It was far higher than anyone else's estimate, even back in her day when all estimates were incredibly high.
Unfortunately Gage's figure entered modern Witchcraft, by two different routes. Gerald Gardner used it in his Witchcraft museum in the 1950's. Later, feminists rediscovered Gage's book, and her myth spread amongst feminist Witches. Today, you can find many sources which cite this figure. But if you look at them closely, you'll notice something strange: no one ever provides any evidence to back this figure up. That's because there isn't any. There are less than 20,000 executions recorded in Europe. We know we've lost some records, but we're quite sure we haven't lost 8,980,000 of them !
__________________
Remembrance is a form of meeting.[Gibran]
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  #83  
Old 17-04-2012, 12:50 AM
Wickerman
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Occultist
I understand Wicker that the church isnt the same as it was. But the Bible is the same KJV. The understanding that if you dont believe this way you will burn in hell is still the same. Many Christians prolly even on this board would say I was going to hell cause I am a Witch.
Not all but prolly more then enough also many people in general still believe Witches worship Satan and have orgys and call upon demons. these are the things I dont like. But you cannot deny them and you cannot say that way of thinking doesnt exist today because it does. Just because I dont get put on a post and set a flame I get gossiped about behind my back and many people fear me in this small one horse town.
You are right, much hasn't changed as far as attitude, but the out right violence has ended. The church still sends missionaries to every tribe that it can find, and does its very best to destroy their native culture and religion. There are a couple of things that explain why christianity does this. One is the monotheistic idea, there is one god. In a polytheistic society there is the idea that there may be other Gods, Rome had a shrine to the unknown god. Also no other religion teaches and promotes itself as the only way. I include in christianity, both islam and Judaism. I am no fan of the church, but I tolerate it so long as it leaves me alone.
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