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20-07-2017, 06:43 AM
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Suspended
Ascender
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 993
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
I merely speak in meanings.
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These do not inhere in words but words are predefined concatenations of characters to be used according to convention, learned by trial and error.
When there is a sense impression the cause is a functional thing's existence and that thing's conventional name arises in the context of conceptuality. This is the case with 'wet' which causes not only bodily sense impression but also visual sense impression, one can touch and see 'wet'. The meaning of 'wet' can be looked up in dictionary but the direct perception caused by existence of the functional thing cannot be looked up.
In contrast to wet channels and chakras cannot be perceived directly which is why channels and chakras do not exist. So wet and channels and chakras are not the same in terms of existence
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20-07-2017, 07:00 AM
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Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 2,817
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In my post about Buddha Sakyamuni rebirth, the story can be very false or very convincing. The story is described in very detailed analysis and information. Not only one or two words that can kill all the truth. Religion teaching is flexible and the understanding can be different and vary from people to people. And the development can be lead astray. But the process of the beginning of the reality or belief is more important.
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20-07-2017, 07:10 AM
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Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 22,111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ground
These do not inhere in words but words are predefined concatenations of characters to be used according to convention, learned by trial and error.
When there is a sense impression the cause is a functional thing's existence and that thing's conventional name arises in the context of conceptuality. This is the case with 'wet' which causes not only bodily sense impression but also visual sense impression, one can touch and see 'wet'. The meaning of 'wet' can be looked up in dictionary but the direct perception caused by existence of the functional thing cannot be looked up.
In contrast to wet channels and chakras cannot be perceived directly which is why channels and chakras do not exist. So wet and channels and chakras are not the same in terms of existence
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Fair enough.
__________________
Radiate boundless love towards the entire world ~ Buddha
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20-07-2017, 05:53 PM
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Knower
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueSky
Buddhism seems to teach that existence has a cause and that cause is clinging to existence, good or bad.
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Buddhism seems to teach that existence has a cause and that cause is clinging to existence, good or bad.
OR
Buddhism taught that existence has a cause and that cause is clinging to existence, good or bad.
This is your 'homework' :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueSky
Is this why Buddhists dont want to come back?
It is such a sad religion from my perspective but then again
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It's only your own perspective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueSky
I can't imagine what lies beyond existence.
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What is lies beyond existence is your own curiosity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueSky
But why then the negative as being "stuck" in the cycle of rebirth? What's wrong with rebirth in Buddhism? I think they see existence as negative but I don't so I'm asking.
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There's nothing wrong with rebirth in Buddhism, and there's no negative or positive.
It's only your own thoughts that you think they see existence as negative.
It's not important why they(Buddhist) want 'get out' from the cycle of rebirth, but the important thing is,
why you want 'get out' from the cycle of rebirth?
OR
why you don't want 'get out' from the cycle of rebirth?
Namaste _/\_
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20-07-2017, 08:10 PM
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Suspended
Ascender
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 993
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mulyo13
Buddhism seems to teach that existence has a cause and that cause is clinging to existence, good or bad.
OR
Buddhism taught that existence has a cause and that cause is clinging to existence, good or bad.
This is your 'homework' :)
It's only your own perspective.
What is lies beyond existence is your own curiosity.
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Good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mulyo13
There's nothing wrong with rebirth in Buddhism, and there's no negative or positive.
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Well as to 'wrong' it is re-birth that is wrong since re-birth does not exist but metaphorically there's nothing wrong with rebirth of specific experiences.
'negative or positive' are value judgements and thus not inherent in objects judged.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mulyo13
It's only your own thoughts that you think they see existence as negative.
It's not important why they(Buddhist) want 'get out' from the cycle of rebirth, but the important thing is,
why you want 'get out' from the cycle of rebirth?
OR
why you don't want 'get out' from the cycle of rebirth?
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re-birth is a good belief for felt self that fears extinction.
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20-07-2017, 09:44 PM
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Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 2,817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ground
Good.
Well as to 'wrong' it is re-birth that is wrong since re-birth does not exist but metaphorically there's nothing wrong with rebirth of specific experiences.
'negative or positive' are value judgements and thus not inherent in objects judged.
re-birth is a good belief for felt self that fears extinction.
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Buddha Sakyamuni teaching of cause and effect, karma, reincarnation, and rebirth.... are all connected with each other in the teaching of Buddhism. And it's universal to all being. When people neglect this truth as you said, modern people don't believe that there's rebirth that's because they don't understand the truth of life EVEN THERE'S A REBIRTH. They know nothing about it but to assume that only somethings that's direct perception is truth, it's only true for certain item but not all. That's leaving a lot of things behind unseen and assuming that they're true. But they're not.
Knowledge and experience or understanding are flexible and optional or depending on situation and condition. These can greatly affect the result of any outcome. Just to think this way if all types of religions are not true then why so many people believe all types of religions some of them can last so long -----about thousands of years. Can you assume that human are folly? Or they are right especially about the main teaching of Buddhism.
Last edited by Jeremy Bong : 20-07-2017 at 10:46 PM.
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21-07-2017, 06:32 AM
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Guide
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mulyo13
Buddhism seems to teach that existence has a cause and that cause is clinging to existence, good or bad.
OR
Buddhism taught that existence has a cause and that cause is clinging to existence, good or bad.
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Either way one has to replace existence with rebirth for this to be true.
For clinging to occur there must be 2 things, one that cling and another clung to.
Something has to exist before clinging can happen, therefore clinging cannot be the source of existence.
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21-07-2017, 07:09 AM
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Suspended
Ascender
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 993
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markings
Either way one has to replace existence with rebirth for this to be true.
For clinging to occur there must be 2 things, one that cling and another clung to.
Something has to exist before clinging can happen, therefore clinging cannot be the source of existence.
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That's not appropriately expressed.
'clinging to existence' means 'clinging to existence as truth' or 'clinging to true existence' or 'believing existence to be true'.
If one clings to existence in this way then the object 'existence' is perpetuated as appearing as if being true and clinging is perpetuated and thus dukkha/stress will arise.
If however one perceives the emptiness of truth of existence then clinging ceases and dukkha/stress ceases.
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21-07-2017, 08:27 AM
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Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 22,111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Bong
Buddha Sakyamuni teaching of cause and effect, karma, reincarnation, and rebirth.... are all connected with each other in the teaching of Buddhism. And it's universal to all being. When people neglect this truth as you said, modern people don't believe that there's rebirth that's because they don't understand the truth of life EVEN THERE'S A REBIRTH. They know nothing about it but to assume that only somethings that's direct perception is truth, it's only true for certain item but not all. That's leaving a lot of things behind unseen and assuming that they're true. But they're not.
Knowledge and experience or understanding are flexible and optional or depending on situation and condition. These can greatly affect the result of any outcome. Just to think this way if all types of religions are not true then why so many people believe all types of religions some of them can last so long -----about thousands of years. Can you assume that human are folly? Or they are right especially about the main teaching of Buddhism.
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In the core of the philosophy there aren't any conclusions like exist, not-exist, being, non-being, as fundamentally speaking, all views are wrong views, and therefore, any conclusion drawn by the mind is considered a 'wrong view'. Of course, in the use of language we understand what is meant by 'exists', and it's entirely unnecessary to quibble inanely over semantics, because the objective of the discourse is not to provide answers which people can then aquire as knowledge, but to bring about the 'knowingness' of conscious awareness. Of course it's stupid to say awareness doesn't exist, and sensible to say it does, because here we are alive and aware, but still, it never allows a conclusion that can be acquired as knowledge, because knowingness has no presence apart from the conscious moment. This rhetoric isn't speaking in answers, but in meanings which might bring the reader's attention to the moment of knowingness inherent to conscious awareness - more simply called 'noticing'.
__________________
Radiate boundless love towards the entire world ~ Buddha
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21-07-2017, 09:30 AM
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Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 2,817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
In the core of the philosophy there aren't any conclusions like exist, not-exist, being, non-being, as fundamentally speaking, all views are wrong views, and therefore, any conclusion drawn by the mind is considered a 'wrong view'. Of course, in the use of language we understand what is meant by 'exists', and it's entirely unnecessary to quibble inanely over semantics, because the objective of the discourse is not to provide answers which people can then aquire as knowledge, but to bring about the 'knowingness' of conscious awareness. Of course it's stupid to say awareness doesn't exist, and sensible to say it does, because here we are alive and aware, but still, it never allows a conclusion that can be acquired as knowledge, because knowingness has no presence apart from the conscious moment. This rhetoric isn't speaking in answers, but in meanings which might bring the reader's attention to the moment of knowingness inherent to conscious awareness - more simply called 'noticing'.
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But core of philosophy do mention about direct perception and this no need to use too much of intelligence and imagination or third eye.
As Buddhism teaching, all things present or exist in impermanent state but we're value in the moment or now. That's we view things of now but not before and after we can see with our eyes. So the meaning of existence is valid. But as you said, what's not exist or exist .......... So it will change a person's discrenment to a muddled-mind.
As a Buddha or any Buddha, if he can't distinguish between right and wrong or true and false then he'll never present at that stage as a Buddha. Knowledge in Buddha's mind is clear and that's the basic techniques to derive the truth from things or life reality. This forms the essence of Buddha teaching.
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