Salvation for the Dead (aka, shadow people)

[lowlyservant]

It is common practice for the dead in purgatory to obtain indulgence from God through the Catholic Church for remission of their sins (C.C.C., X. Indulgences). This practice seems to come from 2 Maccabees 12:38-46. These indulgences are limited to those who die in the communion of saints (the faithful).

The Churches fail to teach the complete redemptive work of Christ. The Gospel message of salvation is to be preached to all men of all times and in all places. We must learn to search scripture with the loving heart of Christ. Jesus holds the keys to death and Hades. And the unfaithful dead in hell can be saved as well.

Revelations 1:18. I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

Philippians 2:10. that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

John 5:25. Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.

Our good works can be offered up to Christ as atonement for the sins of the unfaithful dead in hell. Atonement is necessary because they did not have faith in the Messiah. This completes the gospel work of salvation. To say otherwise, is to cut short the redemptive work of Christ.

2 Maccabees 12:46. Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin.

Some of the dead today are commonly referred to as “shadow people”. I have seen thousands of these spirits. And, I have received divine guidance in regards to them.

I urge those who have the dead in their lives or loved ones in hell to please listen.

Zechariah 9:11. As for you, because of the blood of my covenant with you, I will free your prisoners from the waterless pit.

It is all the same for God to free prisoners in this world from their captives as it is for Christ to free prisoners from their captives in the spirit world.

There are various shades of darkness and white or light in the spirit world. In which two kingdoms exist...heaven and hell. The darker spirits are malevolent and are in hell. Here, you can find "shadow people" in scripture.

Psalm 23:4. Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for You are with me; Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.

Death surrounds us and we can see the shadows of the dead.

Shadow people are generally malevolent spirits of the dead. They are the lost human souls of the netherworld. It is the human condition that we are evil and wicked without God in the afterlife. The soul is in ruins. And in need of salvation (divine restoration).

1 Peter 4:6. For this reason the gospel was preached also to the dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in spirit.

And, it is by the power of God that salvation is made for us and the dead.

1 Corinthians 1:18. For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Comment: Why is “purgatory” necessary, if salvation is by the power of God? Christ can save the dead in a blink of an eye. Although, Catholic myself, I cast my doubts on purgatory.

There is only one way to help these spirits. And that is by making atonement for their sins. In this way, their souls are restored by the divine power of Christ and they can be good spirits with their friends and family in heaven. Atonement is made by offering up our good works to the one and only risen King. One must be in good standing with God and have the door closed to these spirits before atonement will be accepted. This should be done as soon as possible.

Leviticus 19:31. Give no regard to mediums and familiar spirits; do not seek after them, to be defiled by them; I am the Lord your God.

Mediums and familiar spirits involve consulting the spirits of the dead. All contact with these or other spirits was strictly forbidden in Israel. It demonstrated lack of faith in and rebellion against God.

Remember, atonement can also be made for our friends and loved ones in hell.

1 Corinthians 15:19. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable.

I find that offering up atonement to Christ for the sins of the unfaithful dead, to be of the utmost importance. It is the only way that Christ’s Redemptive work of salvation is complete.

In conclusion, this, my friends, is the most loving thing you can do for these poor, lost souls. And, may God bless you for such an undertaking.

[AlwaysDayAfterYesterday]

All of this originates from the Vedas and oblation to God. This is the sacrifice that takes place to support the 'gods.' As you read the Upanishads, the various divisions of nature are shown from the Sun to Water with a voice. This is the process to produce the entire universe and cosmos in support of the Mind of God divided into various beings. Refinement of the sacrifice (all things consumed by the fire) is for one purpose: Madhu. Here is an article I did on this: LINK

When a person gives to others, this is considered sacrifice. All sacrifice in this manner originates with compassion. When a person gives to receive for themselves, this is not sacrifice, but using the things and persons as a means to gain more for self. It's on this point that true sacrifice for others is divided. God gave all of creation to the Son (Yahweh / Adam). Elohim rested in Genesis 2, continually giving of his own mind for the production and sacrifice of his own oblation to the 'gods.' As images of Him, we are the ones receiving. In ancient times, the right hand is the giving hand and the left the receiving hand. When it is said that Jesus is at the right hand of his Father, this is him receiving with his left hand. Note that we do not have a taking hand.

If you want to get to the root of your discourse, you must go to the Upanishads and Vedas to see the nature of sacrifice. All religion originates in this knowledge. Vedas lead to the Upanishads, where the mystery is revealed and no longer hidden. The problem for anyone judging the feminine knowledge with bias is this: The Masculine (Hebrew) knowledge must have a consort in wisdom. The Mind of God is revealed in the far East. The actions of 'gods' are revealed in the Hebrew context (Aleph). Two must become one. BOTH make up the rainbow blessing (Genesis 9) of all colors.

Right now, you are only using one color to see in black and white. Search the Vedas, Upanishads, Gita, Mahabharata and all other Sutras from the far Eastern Mind of God. The fire sacrifice leads to the mind overcoming the need for this position in refinement. Once refined, this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B4Z1PB97KY&t=88s

BUDH in Sanskrit means "Awaken." Just like the work you do during the day, sacrifice of this type requires sleep to regain strength. Nature is this life and death from top to bottom. Any sacrifice we give to others is the mirror to this work from God to all living beings (gods) as images of the original. See Genesis 2:1-3. Where is the Father as the children engage his creation? Resting.

Understand the nature of oblation and sacrifice first, then return to your premise.

.

[jojo50]

Originally Posted by lowlyservant

.

But Jehovah God ,Jesus nor any of their followers, ever spoke of any place in which one goes after death, to be cleans or whatever. Unlike man Jesus and his Father knows where each of us will go when and if we die. You said...”Some of the dead today are commonly referred to as “shadow people”. I have seen thousands of these spirits. And, I have received divine guidance in regards to them”. I have also and responded to some who kept calling me saying...”come here!” my mother who wasn't a Christian, told me to NEVER respond, because those are demons. Later in life, I learn from scriptures, that was true.

There's NO “SOUL”, that leaves the body and communicates with the living. Because the “SOUL” is a living being ,(Gen. 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul). Jesus even showed us this when he was speaking a parable of the “rich man”, Jesus said ,(“And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry”, Luke 12:19). Why would Jesus use this word, if he KNEW the SOUL was the ghost of the dead? The dead wouldn't need to eat and drink, would they?

Ezek. 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die....”,(now If the SOUL were the ghost of the dead, why would sinning even matter? And how can it die, if it's already from a dead person? We really need to stop allowing satan to fill us up with lies. These are just demons fooling us so that we may believe and get destroyed alongside them.

The bible showed that Saul who disobeyed God, later needed help to fight the Philistines, a group he was afraid of, But Jehovah wouldn't answer. So he disobeyed God again by contacting a spirit medium, in order to speak to the faithful dead Samuel. Though he THOUGHT he was speaking to Samuel, it was really demons. First the dead really can't speak with us, but secondly, faithful Samuel also knew NOT to deal with those people, when he was alive. So even if he could speak to the living while he was dead. It wouldn't have been through a medium.(1Sam.28:3-19).

So what you received from them, though good, was from demons. Don't be fooled, demons can pretend to be of God, (2Cor. 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light). He is the master of trickery ,(Ephe. 6:11).

as for “hell”, I tell people, please do research on the “origin of a hellfire). One would see how it became incorporated into christianity. The “hellfire” is a false teaching,which was interpretations are wrong. yet even some christians tend to believe this teaching. It's said that the wicked are burned forever once they have died, because of their sins. But Jehovah's word shows our sins are wiped away once we died ,( Rom.6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin). Remember God told Adam, that the day he eat from a certain tree, he would positively die ,(Gen. 2:17,kj version said “surely die”). Scriptures back this saying as the truth ,(Rom. 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord).

Many don't understand what Jesus was referring to at (Matt.25:41 and Matt. 5:22). Jesus means total destruction, since fire totally destroys things. faithful men of the bible, also KNEW there was NO fiery place, and what “HELL”, really was. See (Psa.139:8), David meant if he falls a sleep in death, Jehovah will still remember him, (as in resurrection), from the grave. Here ,(Jonah 2:1,2), Jonah prayed from the “belly of hell” . Did he say in the fish belly he seen demons and fire? No, but He thought he would die there, in a since it would have been his grave! peace

[lowlyservant]

Originally Posted by jojo50

But Jehovah God ,Jesus nor any of their followers, ever spoke of any place in which one goes after death, to be cleans or whatever. Unlike man Jesus and his Father knows where each of us will go when and if we die.

Although Catholic myself, I doubt the existence of purgatory. There is no need of purification. The soul is restored (salvaged) by the divine power of Christ when we die and before entering heaven to be with God, Jesus, the angels, family and friends.

Originally Posted by jojo50

You said...”Some of the dead today are commonly referred to as “shadow people”. I have seen thousands of these spirits. And, I have received divine guidance in regards to them”. I have also and responded to some who kept calling me saying...”come here!” my mother who wasn't a Christian, told me to NEVER respond, because those are demons. Later in life, I learn from scriptures, that was true.

Some are demons, but most are the dead. They are the lost souls of the netherworld. It's not that a good spirit from heaven or someone out of their bodies could not cast a shadow. This is possible, but would occur, less often.

Originally Posted by jojo50

There's NO “SOUL”, that leaves the body and communicates with the living.

I believe the "soul" and the spirit to be the same thing. And, I have seen and spoke with spirits/souls of family members while they were sleeping.

Originally Posted by jojo50

Ezek. 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die....”,(now If the SOUL were the ghost of the dead, why would sinning even matter? And how can it die, if it's already from a dead person? We really need to stop allowing satan to fill us up with lies. These are just demons fooling us so that we may believe and get destroyed alongside them.

The soul is immortal. It does not literally die. We are evil and wicked without God in the afterlife. The soul is considered "spiritually dead." It is in ruins, without worth or value. The person would had been better off had he/she not been born. The dead soul is in need of salvation...divine restoration.

Originally Posted by jojo50

The bible showed that Saul who disobeyed God, later needed help to fight the Philistines, a group he was afraid of, But Jehovah wouldn't answer. So he disobeyed God again by contacting a spirit medium, in order to speak to the faithful dead Samuel. Though he THOUGHT he was speaking to Samuel, it was really demons. First the dead really can't speak with us, but secondly, faithful Samuel also knew NOT to deal with those people, when he was alive. So even if he could speak to the living while he was dead. It wouldn't have been through a medium.(1Sam.28:3-19).

Saul sinned against God by using a medium to contact Samuel. He was not being deceived by a demon.

Originally Posted by jojo50

as for “hell”, I tell people, please do research on the “origin of a hellfire). One would see how it became incorporated into christianity. The “hellfire” is a false teaching,which was interpretations are wrong. yet even some christians tend to believe this teaching. It's said that the wicked are burned forever once they have died, because of their sins. But Jehovah's word shows our sins are wiped away once we died ,( Rom.6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin). Remember God told Adam, that the day he eat from a certain tree, he would positively die ,(Gen. 2:17,kj version said “surely die”). Scriptures back this saying as the truth ,(Rom. 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord).

Many don't understand what Jesus was referring to at (Matt.25:41 and Matt. 5:22). Jesus means total destruction, since fire totally destroys things. faithful men of the bible, also KNEW there was NO fiery place, and what “HELL”, really was. See (Psa.139:8), David meant if he falls a sleep in death, Jehovah will still remember him, (as in resurrection), from the grave. Here ,(Jonah 2:1,2), Jonah prayed from the “belly of hell” . Did he say in the fish belly he seen demons and fire? No, but He thought he would die there, in a since it would have been his grave! peace

The fires of hell are not literal. It is the state or condition that the spirit is in, being without God's love, in the afterlife. The fire is an analogy to, say, the ruinous state or condition of a building when it is burnt down. It is in ruins and destroyed. And, so is it with the spirit who is without God's saving love in the afterlife...it is in ruins and destroyed.

[jojo50]

Originally Posted by lowlyservant

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You said...”The soul is restored (salvaged) by the divine power of Christ when we die and before entering heaven to be with God, Jesus, the angels, family and friends”.

But that not true according to the scriptures, which I truly follow. The “SOUL” is NOT a “spirit” or “ghost” that leave the body once it dies. The SOUL is LIVING BEING, I will post those scriptures again ,(Gen. 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul).

Again, Jesus showed the SOUL being a living person ,(And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry”, Luke 12:19). in order to have a “SOUL”, in Heaven, one must be a living “BEING”, There's only “SPIRITS” in Heaven.

You said “I believe the "soul" and the spirit to be the same thing. And, I have seen and spoke with spirits/souls of family members while they were sleeping”.

understand that's your beliefs, but that's NOT what the scripture shows. “souls” and “spirits”, are not the same, though we are taught this.

Again... the SOUL became a living being, once the “BREATH OF LIFE”, were blown into the nostrils of Adam. The “SPIRIT”, is that life force with keeps man living. once the life or Spirit is removed, by means of death. The “Spirit” or “BREATH OF LIFE”, return back to the one who gave it, Jehovah God and Jesus.

You said “Some are demons, but most are the dead. They are the lost souls of the netherworld. It's not that a good spirit from heaven or someone out of their bodies could not cast a shadow. This is possible, but would occur, less often”. Again, NONE are dead people, they are ALL DEMONS.

scriptures shows the dead KNOWS NOTHING ,(Psalm 146:4 “his thoughts goes out”). Now if the dead can still remember the living, wouldn't that means his THOUGHTS didn't perish? And wouldn't that make a God who HATES LIES, a liar? I KNOW Jehovah’s words isn't about lying but truth. Which mean the dead DON'T KNOW ANYTHING at all. Their “SOUL” are dead, not floating around ,burning or held up somewhere.

You said “The soul is immortal. It does not literally die. We are evil and wicked without God in the afterlife". The soul is considered "spiritually dead." So are you saying God's word is a lie? ,(Ezek. 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die). Scriptures shows that the SOUL isn't “immortal"l. The SOUL that is “spiritual dead”, is referring to a living person who isn't living by means of the Holy Spirit or Godly way. But walks in the ways of imperfect man, himself, and/or satan.

You then say “ It is in ruins, without worth or value. The person would had been better off had he/she not been born. The dead soul is in need of salvation...divine restoration”. All humans in God's eyes are of “VALUE and WORTH”, this is why Jehovah God sent his son to save ALL of mankind. It's satan who wants man to believe that if they are “spiritually dead”, they might as well “ not been born”.

Sorry but you're wrong, They dead ISN'T in need of being saved. Because death is the wages of sin, so their sins are paid, thanks to Jesus ,(Rom. 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord). Once one has died, their sins are erased ,(Rom.6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin). so there's NO "hellfire", purgatory, or some other part for them until God decides.

You said “Saul sinned against God by using a medium to contact Samuel. He was not being deceived by a demon”). Wrong! Saul THOUGHT he was speaking with Samuel, because he wanted to believe that. Again... Saul KNEW using mediums would be from satan. He also KNEW FROM SCRIPTURES, the dead couldn't communicate with the living. Oh yes!... he was fooled by a demon, just as demons fool MANY today.

As for the “fires of hell”, I NEVER said it was “literal”. We KNOWS there's NO FIERY place for ANYONE, Though MANY believe there is! And NO “SPIRIT”, isn't in any condition. Because the “spirit”, as far as dead people are concern , isn't in them anymore. Again, the “spirit”, is the breath of life God placed in man so that he can wake up and move around. Once he died, that spirit/ breath of life was removed.

[Shivani Devi]

What is death, but not to know the Grace of God and what is eternal life but to know It?

Hell is suffering, whether in this existence or that which lay beyond it. Heaven is liberation and bliss, whether in this existence or any transcendent one.

I can't take the Bible as being literal anymore because it's so contradictory and confuses me too much whenever I do. It also doesn't help much when I am a Hindu (Aghori) and that is my soul-path, but I read scriptures from other beliefs and apply them to what I understand about my own...and I have this distinct feeling that it just wasn't meant to work that way. lol

The title of this thread got me in, because all we do is to provide salvation for the dead because we are the 'shadow people'...feared by some, hated by others, misunderstood by most but generally we are labeled as being 'insane' or 'possessed by demons' or 'under satanic influence' but we are doing God's work, all the same.

AlwaysDayAfterYesterday described it perfectly in regards to the fire sacrifice...the oblation and the surrender/sacrifice of individual will (free will) back to the Divine....back to Rudra.

Do you honestly think that anything happens unless the Lord wants it to be that way? It is only the minds of men which puts a collective moral and ethical spin on it according to what they believe about God and how he appears to be, with a heck of a lot of neurons standing in the way.

[Yessy]

Originally Posted by lowlyservant

Our good works can be offered up to Christ as atonement for the sins of the unfaithful dead in hell. Atonement is necessary because they did not have faith in the Messiah. ..

I can see where you are coming from and whether there is hope for these people or not I can't say for sure, but there is one fundamental error in everything you said, and that is your concept of ATONEMENT.

Atonement cannot come through a human being's good works, ONLY by the blood of Jesus.

http://www.abideinchrist.com/messages/lev17v11.html

[lowlyservant]

Originally Posted by Yessy

I can see where you are coming from and whether there is hope for these people or not I can't say for sure, but there is one fundamental error in everything you said, and that is your concept of ATONEMENT.

Atonement cannot come through a human being's good works, ONLY by the blood of Jesus.

http://www.abideinchrist.com/messages/lev17v11.html

It is good to see that your heart is open. The Lord's atonement is all that is necessary for the faithful in Christ. The unfaithful dead in hell need atonement (good works) accepted by Christ to be forgiven of their sins.

2 Maccabees 12:46. Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin.

This way, even those in hell can be saved.

[Amilius777]

Shadow People?

Those are Interdimensional beings who are on the dark side. They are a respectfully and I hate to use the word, but a "race" all their own. The bad ones are called "shadow people". Race is a limiting word since we are talking about multi-dimensional consciousness, but I couldn't think of another word from the English language to use.

Not to be confused with fallen angels/demonic spirits. They are another type of being.

And no they are not dead people. But dead people, earthbound Spirits can project themselves as shadows and they usually do to hide their identity from the living.

[lowlyservant]

Originally Posted by Amilius777

Shadow People?

Those are Interdimensional beings who are on the dark side. They are a respectfully and I hate to use the word, but a "race" all their own. The bad ones are called "shadow people". Race is a limiting word since we are talking about multi-dimensional consciousness, but I couldn't think of another word from the English language to use.

Not to be confused with fallen angels/demonic spirits. They are another type of being.

And no they are not dead people. But dead people, earthbound Spirits can project themselves as shadows and they usually do to hide their identity from the living.

Shadow people are primarily, dead human spirits in hell. The are liken, lying, deceiving devils and in need of divine salvation of their souls. This can be done by offering up good works as atonement for their sins to Christ. Who, upon accepting the offering, will restore their souls with His divine powers, so that they can be with God, the angels, family and friends in heaven. This is a most loving thing to do for these people.