Karma and the Foundational Quantum Reality

[7luminaries]

Hello all.

From another thread in science & spirituality, I have looked at the parallels between 1) quantum mechanics and 2) karma and our individual and collective spiritual journeys.

I wanted to put it out for review and consideration. I realised after no one responded (LOL) that perhaps the discussion of karma and multiple incarnations might not be accepted by many on the science thread.

What are your thoughts or considerations or challenges to this perspective?
Do you feel or apprehend if some or any of it might have some merit?
I will also post some links for quick overviews if anyone wants to check them.

Thank you in advance for your thoughts.
Peace & blessings
7L
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Yes. Though understood better by mystics than scientists,

what the physicists all say is that the quantum reality describes our foundational reality with all its weirdness and probability -- free will/observer impact which is not bound by linear timespace and nonlocal effects like quantum entanglement of particles and systems (also not bound by linear timespace). OK.

So on revising all this in spirit a bit, I see per harmonic or other expressions of our quantum reality, entanglement has different "levels":

- foundational entanglement - the most core or central entanglement, concerning souls which are the most proximate (nearby) and temporal (same moment) in the spiritual sense to one another. Occurring outside of time and space as we know it. According to the guide, this foundational entanglement is to foundationally orient the soul toward authentic love of others equally to the self, to put it very simply (and vice versa as the correction is needed). This apparently is the natural outcome of being created "in the image" of Is. This entanglement is from the ground up, woven into the very being of the soul or the individuated consciousness, hence into every material particle of our being in any and all lifetimes. Hence foundational.

Similarly each soul has foundational entanglement with Oneness, since Oneness was "there" at the creation of the souls. These would be the smallest or core entanglement systems. A pair of separate souls born together, and/or each souls birth from Source. I would say either of these are foundational entanglement. It just is. Love and presence just is.

- proximate entanglement - say for souls in one's soul group...other souls created or born "near to" your own, spiritually. This is another layer of entanglement on top of Oneness foundational entanglement/or any foundational entanglement of souls. This is similar to tests where 2 entangled particles (foundational entanglement) can also be one or both entangled within a larger system. This system does not override the foundational entanglement of the two particles, which always remains "at core" -- just like IMO any soul's foundational entanglement with Oneness remains, regardless. Entanglement energy with soul family is strengthened by various repeated contact over lifetimes. We are present spiritually with our soul fam even if distant, which is why they may feel familiar on meeting in any one lifetime.

- temporal entanglement - having to do with "time"...the most illusory and thus the outermost spiritually; hence the most numerous and most common (so to speak) entanglement system, also potentially the weakest. This reflects the entanglement energy built up in any one lifetime between folks in one's life, such as family, friends, partners, neighbours, strangers, enemies, etc. This is how we interact with other souls who may be very distant from us spiritually, as well as those who are close. We can create entanglement energy with those who cross our paths in any one lifetime, but as I understand from what was conveyed to me by the one guide, these will not and cannot be foundational entanglement until all things are perfected. That's why time exists. It's also why karma is not and cannot be instantly manifested as yet.

All of these "types" of spiritual entanglement can be overlaid and in fact they are, in an infinity of manifest ways.

We can love and befriend the stranger, and that is good and true. Likewise it's why the love of soul family feels more intimate and resonant due to its spiritual proximity to us, and this too is good and true. The human heart and spirit apprehends the difference, even when things "look" or are "measured" in the lab to appear "the same". These differences teach us about our fundamental reality and are meaningful to us precisely because we can and do experience them day-to-day.

Because the foundational spiritual entanglements teach and reveal most about love and being, these are worth cultivating and treasuring, along with soul fam (proximate spiritual entanglement) so that we become who we are more fully. And so we can then bring as much love and being to the more distant, temporal entanglements that will and do also cross our paths.

[7luminaries]

Also...if anyone is interested...

Here are some links which provide quick overviews, pretty good presentation really...
I bolded those most central to the topic, and the best overall I think.

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PBS Space Time short vids
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYkaahzFWfo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSFRN-ymfgE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tafGL02EUOA&t=693s

quantum entanglement

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-MNSLsjjdo
1 The Quantum Experiment that Broke Reality

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ORLN_KwAgs
2 How the Quantum Eraser Rewrites the Past

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuvK-od647c&t=7s
Quantum Entanglement & Spooky Action at a Distance

TedX Talks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZzHnZzm_58
18 mins spooky quantum physics

[7luminaries]

Here's another very recent post in response to someone regarding relationships and manifestation, to sum it up.

I was trying to convey the notion that karma is built into the very foundation of our reality, and that it cannot be abrogated.
In exactly the same way, nor can your own or anyone else's free will be abrogated within our dimensional reality (i.e., the fabric of spacetime and also all higher dimensions and parallel realms).
Because karma and consciousness exist outside of (or, surround and permeate) all of these manifest realities.

Thus, core spiritual moments of growth or evolution, these core moments of lovingkindness and reconciliation...are beyond spacetime and will manifest in whatever reality regardless, unless they are attended with equanimity and lovingkindness.
Likewise, the perpetration or residual transfer of unhealed karma from other times is also beyond spacetime and will manifest regardless.

My more recent understanding is that some entanglement, too, is foundational...such as entanglement with Oneness or Isness. Most is not and is overlaid onto the foundational entanglement. And much of that overlay is the part that occurs within spacetime, allowing a place and time within which we incarnate and can work with our karma, however we've accrued it.

Thanks in advance for your time and your thoughts.
Peace & blessings
7L
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Hello Melahin
Ok...very cool now we're discussing alternate realities.
What I understand in my limited apprehension is the following...
(disclaimer: who really knows? but based on smart minds theorising, tis kinda like this...)

The probabilities of all possibilities arise and collapse into the chosen reality we see all around us (in this realm) in what we call the 5th dimension. Which exists "all around" our 4-D space time reality. Just like our linear 4-D time exists "all around" our 3-D reality.

So shifting into close parallel realms (or strings) is possible and happens all the time (according to some, and I believe it's so, but it's hard to vary many of the events too much without radical change and focused consciousness from a huge proportion of the folks on earth. Lots of small local changes and odd details crop up as we move across similar realms and the occasional biggies (Mandela Effect)...but for the most part they go unnoticed. In each realm, as soon as the 5D probability collapses into an event, the other potentials are no longer available in that 4D reality. (Wacky note -- we can supposedly pick up internet info from different realms...an actual source of alternate news, LOL).

So normally if someone sees you as burdensome in our current reality (of similar realms, LOL), you can shift that somewhat as you move away and reframe things and reframe the interaction, etc. That's doable all by yourself...and to some extent, this does change reality a bit in some very concrete ways. The other(s) may then adjust somewhat to you, but their choice to let go their biases or make fundamental spiritual changes is still on them.

So, if they are mostly the same in all close parallel realms, per usual, then you relaxing into that place of love will send out love into the world and may raise all ships, but that doesn't mean any probs btwn you two (or you all) specifically are likely to be fundamentally different. Because spirituality and karma are outside all these dimensions. In other words, we are literally the sum of all our choices to date, and this is why choices other than those we have taken cease to exist in our time-bound universe (of similar realms) as soon as we take the choice. That is, we can't radically change or abrogate anyone else's free will by anything "allowed" in our dimensional reality.

Let's say you could cheat a bit and do some unallowable stuff (at for us at present) and get to the 6th dimension which is "all around" the 5th. The 6th dimension contains all possible probabilities, including all those you never chose and all those which never happened here, etc.

Let's say you could actually get off your current timeline and all the nearby similar ones...and go over to a totally different timeline existing in a different realm (including a completely different physical universe) where loads of stuff was different but earth was still there and was populated, etc.

In this totally foreign timeline which actualised in 5D over there, once you get down to 4D on earth, the Nazis won and wir sprechen Deutch but there, what a joy! your close soul person has never resented you and treats you kindly whilst you two navigate your respective lives...whether as friends, or as partners, or whatever. Apparently you two have reconciled and forgiven one another for all things past and he is already consciously living from a place of love and kindness etc...you are gobsmacked and deeply moved. Also over there, let's just say, the existence of the totalitarian regime has really highlighted the importance of these connections because they are so fundamental and thus out of reach of the regime. That has given him and most others a real boot in the rear, which focused him on getting over himself and reconciling etc.

Unfortunately, stepping back, you may realise that's a really bad trade off on human pain and suffering (LOL) and you may realise instead he just may need to employ kindness and nonjudgment HERE and with you specifically....refraining from resentment and allowing lovingkindness to grow within him. Within our current realm. A much slower process, though...perhaps lifetimes are needed. So (in my version) you decide to leave that timeline and come back to this reality and this timeline, and suck it up, LOL and support a timeline where the leading nations are not advocating totalitarianism (for the good of humanity on earth).

Another thought...maybe you and I don't exist at all in that other regime and we are rootless visitors in that realm with no fundamental attachment to the fabric of their existence -- perhaps no soul family then either as we'd ripped ourselves away to go AWOL. How weird would that be? At least we'd still have God and guides. But that's not our reality and we can't get to the 6th dimension to play around...perhaps that's a good thing and we simply need to spread more love around in this reality ...for certain I don't want to be a Nazi!

So...long story short, relaxing into the love you are is great, and somewhere, in some other realm, all this HAS already happened in one fashion or another...but that's not to say it's the answer to anyone's prayers...may be some pretty nasty stuff attached to being in another timeline that is not well aligned with this one. Maybe working on increasing the love in this timeline is just as good with less fallout, LOL...

I do think your examples of giving yourself whatever your mum or whomever didn't give you are really lovely though. We can each move into that space of love and heal the child, heal the broken heart, and the shattered spirit, etc. And we don't need to wait a moment to do so, much less lifetimes for another to acknowledge the love that we are and the love that we all deserve. For me, that is the heart of the message entirely (and thank you for that )...that, and the centrality of lovingkindness and equanimity.

[Melahin]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

I was trying to convey the notion that karma is built into the very foundation of our reality, and that it cannot be abrogated.

I believe KRYON talks about Karma as the most outdated version of our reality; and the love of god to be second, and love of self to be the newest foundation of our reality... and the one that out dates both of the other by millennia's Now if we look at yoga it talks about the Anahata to be place that exist outside the realm of Karma equally... neither have I ever found anything in Quantum that makes one believe in Karma... probably more allows you to believe in whatever you feel like. Also the way people talk about Karma I find that there are more acute ways to actually explain it if one comes from the intellect. Maybe some are here in this perceived time space not to burn off Karma, but to entirely let go of an idea that to my understanding is way outdated and I see Quantum as a way to allow one to do that... if one feel one is ready to do so Likewise is the idea of plural lives a speculation; maybe true, maybe false. All one can say is I experienced what felt like a past life; which to the Heart is good enough, the same way pretending you are Robin Hood equals a life experience of such magnitude haha. So maybe we are just here for no other reason than to enjoy life... and the rest is mere speculations that gives sense to the senseless?

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Melahin

I believe KRYON talks about Karma as the most outdated version of our reality; and the love of god to be second, and love of self to be the newest foundation of our reality... and the one that out dates both of the other by millennia's Now if we look at yoga it talks about the Anahata to be place that exist outside the realm of Karma equally... neither have I ever found anything in Quantum that makes one believe in Karma... probably more allows you to believe in whatever you feel like. Also the way people talk about Karma I find that there are more acute ways to actually explain it if one comes from the intellect. Maybe some are here in this perceived time space not to burn off Karma, but to entirely let go of an idea that to my understanding is way outdated and I see Quantum as a way to allow one to do that... if one feel one is ready to do so Likewise is the idea of plural lives a speculation; maybe true, maybe false. All one can say is I experienced what felt like a past life; which to the Heart is good enough, the same way pretending you are Robin Hood equals a life experience of such magnitude haha. So maybe we are just here for no other reason than to enjoy life... and the rest is mere speculations that gives sense to the senseless?

According to Buddhist teachings, kamma is to do with volition, so there isn't any past kamma as such, only potentials created by volition of the past. The volition one has now creates potentials for future arisings. So it is said good-will produces good outcomes and ill-will produces bad outcomes.

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by Gem

According to Buddhist teachings, kamma is to do with volition, so there isn't any past kamma as such, only potentials created by volition of the past.

"Intention, I tell you, is kamma. Intending, one does kamma by way of body, speech, & intellect."

"'I am the owner of my actions (kamma), heir to my actions, born of my actions, related through my actions, and have my actions as my arbitrator. Whatever I do, for good or for evil, to that will I fall heir'..."

Buddha
— AN 6.63

[Melahin]

Originally Posted by Gem

According to Buddhist teachings, kamma is to do with volition, so there isn't any past kamma as such, only potentials created by volition of the past. The volition one has now creates potentials for future arisings. So it is said good-will produces good outcomes and ill-will produces bad outcomes.

Thanks. I read a book from a tantric Buddhist talking about Hindu tantra. Yes it gets a bit confusing maybe If we play at tantra then Karma is not an all permeating truth to life, something inescapable; it is just a fact of being trapped in the lower workings of your emotional nature, or something like that. So I was just making a comment that Quantum completely agrees that Karma is a perception of a potential reality, not an all permeating reality you cannot be without. At least from what I have read. Neither is my Heart concerned with such things as Karma, Free Will and whatever. So I will slip back into the sweet comfort of my Heart; and let the rest of you come back to your talking. Have fun

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Melahin

Thanks. I read a book from a tantric Buddhist talking about Hindu tantra.

OK. I have no knowledge of Hinduism at all. I don't know what tantra is.

Yes it gets a bit confusing maybe If we play at tantra then Karma is not an all permeating truth to life, something inescapable; it is just a fact of being trapped in the lower workings of your emotional nature, or something like that.
So I was just making a comment that Quantum completely agrees that Karma is a perception of a potential reality, not an all permeating reality you cannot be without. At least from what I have read. Neither is my Heart concerned with such things as Karma, Free Will and whatever. So I will slip back into the sweet comfort of my Heart; and let the rest of you come back to your talking. Have fun

I just mentioned how Buddhism explains it because this is a Buddhist thread. QM says nothing about Kamma at all as far I have heard.

Before I dive into the science. Not necessarily a fan.
Even though I am with the Buddha in terms of the 4 noble truths I have a different idea about how Karma and reincarnation come about.

Karma to me is a simplified natural case of cause and effect.
The way it spans multiple perceived lifetimes in my view is as follows.

I belief that any intention caries within it the drive to fulfillment.
So when an intention I make remains unfulfilled it remains somewhere in some crease of existence until it has been fulfilled or deconstructed/dissolved.

Given the appearance that like attracts like. Someone resonating with the intention that floats around picks it up and somehow enters an agreement to help the intention fulfill itself.

When tuning into that intention he or she may pick up a glimpse of the being (sort of a snapshot that goes along with the intention through the conservation of energy principle.) that intended the thing.

So I view past lives not as my self past lives, but lives that intended something I am either to fulfill or dissolve during my lifetime.

Does that make sense?

With Love
Eelco

[7luminaries]

Hey there Cat :)
It does make sense, and I think that there is nothing contradictory in what either of us have said.
In fact I really like the visualization or picture of your potential selves, which exist in the realm of possibility until you either decide to go down that route and manifest those selves...

Or take a different choice and manifest that self in this now moment.

Any of which become your current self, depending on your choices in each moment.
If that also makes sense


Peace & blessings
7L