Discussion on the Mandukya Upanishad

[Still_Waters]

Right now, I'm re-reading the Mandukya Upanishad with Gaudapada's Karika (commentary) and Sankara's commentary. In the foreword, it says that:

"If a man cannot afford to study all the hundred and more Upanishads, it (the Mandukya Upanishad) will be enough; it is declared in the Muktikopanishad, if he made the one Upanishad the Mandukya, as Shankaracharya also says, it contains the quintessence of all of them."

It was the Mandukya Upanishad that, many years ago, led me to practice "conscious sleep" (chetan nidra, yoga nidra) and remain aware during the entire cycle of deep sleep, dream formation, and the so-called waking state as well as the transitions between the three states and beyond (the turiya). How better to "Know Yourself" than to observe one's self directly during these four stages of consciousness ! That process is very illuminating with awesome implications and is also used by Tibetan Buddhists who compare the process of "dying" to going to sleep.

Now that I am re-reading the Mandukya Upanishad with the aforementioned commentaries, I was wondering if anyone here has read the Upanishad and has any comments to make. After all, it is the SHORTEST of the Upanishads and goes straight to the point of spiritual realization without any mention of rituals or sacrifices.

Aum !

[Shivani Devi]

Namaste.

In all the years I have been here, I have never seen anyone else, besides myself discuss sacred Hindu Texts in the Hindu forum before...So I was very pleasantly surprised when I awoke to see this today.

I actually enjoyed Gaudapada's Karika on the Mandukya Upanishad better that the Upanishad itself, but I haven't read Shankara's commentary on it yet.

The sacred syllable...The pranava AUM is the essence of the vibratory energy of pure Consciousness, which is filtered and reflected down through all the levels from subtle to gross...from the Atmic, to the body-mind (Psycho physical) experience and we climb back up that ladder by chanting it.

The three phonemic modalities A-U-M refers to the unconscious, subconscious and conscious states respectively, and it is the connection between them and the intonation (possibly ending the M with 'NG') which gives rise to the superconscious state...The 4th state or 4th way ( if you are into Ouspensky) called Turiya which represents the transcendent awareness and Yoga Nidra is an excellent way of achieving it.

Aum.

[Shivani Devi]

Whilst the Mandukya Upanishad is possibly the most quintessential text from the Athara Veda (the Vedas of Applied Knowledge), it depends on the personality of the aspirant whether they will find that text the most useful in their personal, spiritual growth and the opinions of all the ancient, great sages are still only "educated opinions" however, because the sages are seen as "messengers from God" since time immemorial, whatever they have expounded has never been questioned.

During my first 30 years of life, I lived two lives...The abused and neglected "Western child" as a result of my "Earth family" and the coddled, spoilt "Hindu child" as the direct result of my "Soul family" and I heard many, MANY tales..even before I read a single Upanishad...how Nachiketas went to Hell and questioned Lord Yama...how Swetakhetu returned from studying philosophy but actually learned nothing and how Sage Yajnavalkya used to hold huge discourses on the nature of Brahman... That's IF Brahman had any "nature" of course!

Going back over a century ago, all Hindu children were taught these things...such a rich mythological tradition Hinduism has..and many tales were spun around significant spiritual concepts which may have occurred...or not and were reinforced by storytellers, puppeteers, dancers, artisans...It was all woven into the very fabric of Hindu society from about 12,500 BC until the middle of the last century....You know...With the introduction of Hollywood movies, Felix the Cat, Betty Boop, Mickey Mouse and slapstick humour won out over cultural mythology...and over time, Western culture was adopted and preferred under the "guise" of Hinduism.

I have studied about a dozen of the Upanishads, not all of them and the Katha, Isha and Shvetashvatara will always hold pride of place in my life and heart...but the latter are all part of a different Vedic system called the Yajurveda, which deals with rituals, culture and the Arts (which is more of my own path in Hinduism than knowledge is) and of course, those 'who 'know' will promote knowledge as being the "ultimate way' over something like Bhakti or Rasa which may suit an adherent who has an entirely different temperament...pretty much totally irrespective of what Shankaracharya or Gaudapada or Ramana Maharishi or Abhinavagupta or Vivekananda etc has to say about anything, really.

I have been here for three years and I haven't even seen another type in Sanskrit besides myself...I have never seen anything else besides a few well known quotes from the Bhagavad-Gita ...So, I have tried to get a discussion going on the Mahabharata, the Rig Veda, the Chhandogya Upanishad, the Shvetashvatara Upanishad, the Dakshinamurthy Stotram, the Vigyan Bhairava Tantra...and nobody ever replies...EVER and they all languish because nobody has read any Hindu texts or is even interested in reading them whatsoever...but the minute Ramana Maharishi or Ramakrishna Paramahamsa is mentioned, everyone wants to jump all over it, only to mention what great souls they were and nothing more.

I'm pleased when somebody gives me something to reply to on here and distracts my consciousness even momentarily from the "illusory ills" of an "illusory world" because if I am not discussing those things, there would be nothing TO discuss and I may as well not be on SF.. because as you know, I have a LOT I can share about this..about Hindu philosophy and mythology, but I am never given the opportunity to do so...and if I were, I would be discussing THAT and not how the behaviours of ignorant family members annoy me...However, I have also learned that people don't care either way..even if I had the ability to bestow Moksha, nobody would want it because they only want to idealise it and that's all.

I will be very surprised if anybody else responds to this because others on here have never read a Hindu scripture in their life except for a Westernised translation of the Bhagavad-Gita...With the sole exception of the two of us.

Aum Namah Shivaya

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Namaste.

In all the years I have been here, I have never seen anyone else, besides myself discuss sacred Hindu Texts in the Hindu forum before...So I was very pleasantly surprised when I awoke to see this today.

I actually enjoyed Gaudapada's Karika on the Mandukya Upanishad better that the Upanishad itself, but I haven't read Shankara's commentary on it yet.

The sacred syllable...The pranava AUM is the essence of the vibratory energy of pure Consciousness, which is filtered and reflected down through all the levels from subtle to gross...from the Atmic, to the body-mind (Psycho physical) experience and we climb back up that ladder by chanting it.

The three phonemic modalities A-U-M refers to the unconscious, subconscious and conscious states respectively, and it is the connection between them and the intonation (possibly ending the M with 'NG') which gives rise to the superconscious state...The 4th state or 4th way ( if you are into Ouspensky) called Turiya which represents the transcendent awareness and Yoga Nidra is an excellent way of achieving it.

Aum.

You might be interested to know that there is a Translation of the Mandukya Upanishad by Swami Nikhilananda of the Ramakrishna Order which includes BOTH Gaudapada's Karika and Sankara's Commentary. That is the one that I am reading now. (I have read other translations of the major Upanishads in the past, but this is the first time that I'm reading Gaudapada's commentary.)

One interesting thing about Sanskrit which I noticed years ago is that the Rishis of India were masters of sound and that, by chanting some of the Sanskrit words and passages, the intended meaning somehow becomes clear. (It can be demonstrated scientifically that fine sand can be moved into predetermined formations simply by applying a particular continuous sound vibration. The theory is that, by chanting certain things in Sanskrit, the mind stuff --- for lack of a better word --- goes into a predetermined formation to trigger understanding simply by chanting.) I think that this is part of the inherent value in simply chanting the pranava AUM or OM. (I must concede that I have sometimes fallen into the trap of chanting "OM" instead of the tri-syllable "A-U-M".)

I have often meditated on the symbol for OM while chanting the word itself and contemplating the three curves or trinities. The trinities include the three stages of consciousness (deep sleep, so-called waking, and dream state as in the Upanishad), the manifestation of the mental formation of time (present, past , future), the three deities (Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva), and so on. The other curve (at least to me) signifies the transcendental veil that obscures it all when one goes past it and becomes entangled. The bindu (dot) to me signifies the seed trigger that results in dreams in "conscious sleep" with obvious implications regarding the underlying reality. Beyond it all, of course, is turiya.

The combination of the symbol plus the sound itself makes OM (A-U-M) a particularly powerful tool in discovering the Ultimate Reality. Of course, as the commentary indicates, both the name and the thing itself must be removed from the mind simultaneously in one fell swoop. A chant such as Aum Namah Shivay clearly starts with AUM and takes what I call the "Shiva branch" curve when interacting dualistically in the world. It is my path to destroy ignorance and that is associated with Shiva. Eventually, when one is not functioning dualistically, the chant shortens to just OM (A-U-M). Ramana Maharshi himself has said that "I AM" (not necessarily the words but the sense of coming into existence) precedes OM and it took me a while to grasp that. Eventually, also according to Ramana Maharshi, that which is does not even say "I AM". (The Gaudapada Karika suggests that as well in saying that the word and the thing itself eventually are both removed from the mind simultaneously.)

In "conscious sleep", as per the Upanishad, one gets a glimpse of non-duality in the deep sleep state and , from that, the obvious inferences and experiences start to emerge quite naturally.

It would be interesting to discuss the Upanishads here with the Mandukya Upanishad being my primary Upanishadic interest at this time.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Whilst the Mandukya Upanishad is possibly the most quintessential text from the Athara Veda (the Vedas of Applied Knowledge), it depends on the personality of the aspirant whether they will find that text the most useful in their personal, spiritual growth and the opinions of all the ancient, great sages are still only "educated opinions" however, because the sages are seen as "messengers from God" since time immemorial, whatever they have expounded has never been questioned.

During my first 30 years of life, I lived two lives...The abused and neglected "Western child" as a result of my "Earth family" and the coddled, spoilt "Hindu child" as the direct result of my "Soul family" and I heard many, MANY tales..even before I read a single Upanishad...how Nachiketas went to Hell and questioned Lord Yama...how Swetakhetu returned from studying philosophy but actually learned nothing and how Sage Yajnavalkya used to hold huge discourses on the nature of Brahman... That's IF Brahman had any "nature" of course!

Going back over a century ago, all Hindu children were taught these things...such a rich mythological tradition Hinduism has..and many tales were spun around significant spiritual concepts which may have occurred...or not and were reinforced by storytellers, puppeteers, dancers, artisans...It was all woven into the very fabric of Hindu society from about 12,500 BC until the middle of the last century....You know...With the introduction of Hollywood movies, Felix the Cat, Betty Boop, Mickey Mouse and slapstick humour won out over cultural mythology...and over time, Western culture was adopted and preferred under the "guise" of Hinduism.

I have studied about a dozen of the Upanishads, not all of them and the Katha, Isha and Shvetashvatara will always hold pride of place in my life and heart...but the latter are all part of a different Vedic system called the Yajurveda, which deals with rituals, culture and the Arts (which is more of my own path in Hinduism than knowledge is) and of course, those 'who 'know' will promote knowledge as being the "ultimate way' over something like Bhakti or Rasa which may suit an adherent who has an entirely different temperament...pretty much totally irrespective of what Shankaracharya or Gaudapada or Ramana Maharishi or Abhinavagupta or Vivekananda etc has to say about anything, really.

I have been here for three years and I haven't even seen another type in Sanskrit besides myself...I have never seen anything else besides a few well known quotes from the Bhagavad-Gita ...So, I have tried to get a discussion going on the Mahabharata, the Rig Veda, the Chhandogya Upanishad, the Shvetashvatara Upanishad, the Dakshinamurthy Stotram, the Vigyan Bhairava Tantra...and nobody ever replies...EVER and they all languish because nobody has read any Hindu texts or is even interested in reading them whatsoever...but the minute Ramana Maharishi or Ramakrishna Paramahamsa is mentioned, everyone wants to jump all over it, only to mention what great souls they were and nothing more.

I'm pleased when somebody gives me something to reply to on here and distracts my consciousness even momentarily from the "illusory ills" of an "illusory world" because if I am not discussing those things, there would be nothing TO discuss and I may as well not be on SF.. because as you know, I have a LOT I can share about this..about Hindu philosophy and mythology, but I am never given the opportunity to do so...and if I were, I would be discussing THAT and not how the behaviours of ignorant family members annoy me...However, I have also learned that people don't care either way..even if I had the ability to bestow Moksha, nobody would want it because they only want to idealise it and that's all.

I will be very surprised if anybody else responds to this because others on here have never read a Hindu scripture in their life except for a Westernised translation of the Bhagavad-Gita...With the sole exception of the two of us.

Aum Namah Shivaya

I agree with you completely that "whilst the Mandukya Upanishad is possibly the most quintessential text from the Athara Veda (the Vedas of Applied Knowledge), it depends on the personality of the aspirant whether they will find that text the most useful in their personal, spiritual growth". What you wrote is essentially what describes the value of the Bhagavad Gita. The Gita shows different paths to God-realization (jnana for the intellectuals, bhakti for the devotional, and karma yoga for the service-oriented). There is a bit of all in each of us with jnana being my dominant path but not without bhakti (Shiva, Durga) and service (lots of volunteer work and a short stint in social services after my corporate career).

I have read each of the Upanishads that you mentioned and perhaps that prepared me for the Mandukya, which Sankara describes as the quintessence of the Vedas. At one point in my life, the Mandukya Upanishad did not appeal as much as the other stories but a shift has definitely taken place once I started practicing "conscious sleep" as suggested in the Mandukya Upanishad. When I met my spiritual mentor, she said: "Question everything, including what I say, and, if a teacher can't point you to the experiences, then go elsewhere." Hence, the direct validating experiences are very important to me.

I look forward to discussing such things more with you in the future and also with whoever else may join us in the discussion. I may occasionally throw some thoughts out on things which initially perplexed me in both the Mahabharata and the Ramayana to get your perspective on incidents that initially seemed troubling but were really more thought-provoking than anything else when I resolved my questions.

Now, I will log off and do morning yoga while listening to Robbie Gass' version of "Om Namaha Shivaya" and "Hara Hara Gurudeva".

[Shivani Devi]

As I am trying to think of a response...

I was introduced to Hinduism directly through the heart... bypassing my mind and intellect completely, yet I studied the Vedas; not to learn...but to give a backdrop...A foundation for what it was I already knew through cultural association and appropriation.

There isn't much of a difference between conscious sleep and the deep trance state, but while Yoga Nidra lead you to appreciate the Mandukya Upanishad (and vice versa), going into devotional trance gave me a new appreciation for all of the Agamic texts and also made me understand all of the historic symbology.

Of course, the pranava AUM is essential to all branches of Sanatan Dharma, but while you were learning about the AUM, I was learning about So-ham and the exchange of prana through the breath signifying the existential state of Chit...which also had something to do with the swan of Lord Brahma (Hamsa - which is So-ham in reverse) which is said to be able to distinguish and separate milk from water when mixed together...so I kind of diverged and digressed down THAT path, realising that if I say "am I?" for long enough, I will also be able to say "I am" simultaneously.

I learned most of what I know in Bali, Malaysia and Fiji and through watching and participating in ceremonies like Nyepi, Thaipusam, Fire walking and ancient Hindu/Animistic shamanic rituals which would have been similar to those practiced during the codification of the Rig Veda...and Sanskrit wasn't so hard to learn once I had mastered old Javanese (mostly learned through temple inscriptions at Candi Sukuh, Prambanan and Borubudur)..

So, this is how I got into it and I also realised quite early on, I was a Shaivite...because everywhere I went, I always saw a picture of Lord Shiva smiling at me and I knew who/what was responsible for all these experiences I was having...and reading the Upanishads , the Vedas, the Puranas, the Itihasas and the epics just happened as a matter of course...mostly so I could understand the puppet shows and the dances I loved to watch, but the thick Balinese accents made it impossible to understand for me.

Anyway, I am also going off for a while too because my mobile phone is putting in whatever words it wants to which are spelled similar to what I am typing, but not exactly the same and my OCD is having a hard time with this...going back and editing everything and I am over it.

Aum Namah Shivaya

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

As I am trying to think of a response...

I was introduced to Hinduism directly through the heart... bypassing my mind and intellect completely, yet I studied the Vedas; not to learn...but to give a backdrop...A foundation for what it was I already knew through cultural association and appropriation.

There isn't much of a difference between conscious sleep and the deep trance state, but while Yoga Nidra lead you to appreciate the Mandukya Upanishad (and vice versa), going into devotional trance gave me a new appreciation for all of the Agamic texts and also made me understand all of the historic symbology.

Of course, the pranava AUM is essential to all branches of Sanatan Dharma, but while you were learning about the AUM, I was learning about So-ham and the exchange of prana through the breath signifying the existential state of Chit...which also had something to do with the swan of Lord Brahma (Hamsa - which is So-ham in reverse) which is said to be able to distinguish and separate milk from water when mixed together...so I kind of diverged and digressed down THAT path, realising that if I say "am I?" for long enough, I will also be able to say "I am" simultaneously.

I learned most of what I know in Bali, Malaysia and Fiji and through watching and participating in ceremonies like Nyepi, Thaipusam, Fire walking and ancient Hindu/Animistic shamanic rituals which would have been similar to those practiced during the codification of the Rig Veda...and Sanskrit wasn't so hard to learn once I had mastered old Javanese (mostly learned through temple inscriptions at Candi Sukuh, Prambanan and Borubudur)..

So, this is how I got into it and I also realised quite early on, I was a Shaivite...because everywhere I went, I always saw a picture of Lord Shiva smiling at me and I knew who/what was responsible for all these experiences I was having...and reading the Upanishads , the Vedas, the Puranas, the Itihasas and the epics just happened as a matter of course...mostly so I could understand the puppet shows and the dances I loved to watch, but the thick Balinese accents made it impossible to understand for me.

Anyway, I am also going off for a while too because my mobile phone is putting in whatever words it wants to which are spelled similar to what I am typing, but not exactly the same and my OCD is having a hard time with this...going back and editing everything and I am over it.

Aum Namah Shivaya

Like yourself, I have practiced Soham/Hamso extensively. If I am not mistaken, that mantra is mentioned at the end of the Isha Upanishad and is excellent. In my practice, one sacrifices one into the other (Sohamsohamsoham) so that, eventually, one does not know whether one is practicing Soham or Hamso. It is a very auspicious mantra. It is generally understood to mean "That I am" and "I am that" depending on which syllable is pronounced first. Ramana Maharshi has indicated that the mantra facilitates dis-identification with the limited little self but making the "I" more all-encompassing. (Regarding Ramana Maharshi, I too have noticed that most people here who reference Ramana do not seem to have read or understood him with any depth but nonetheless he is indeed awesome.)

I was drawn to the Aum Namah Shivay chant by several auspicious happenings and that is what drew me to OM in the first place. The Mandukya Upanishad and conscious sleep came afterwards. (You mention that there is not much of a difference between conscious sleep and deep trance. It's interesting that you should say that as I was thinking about just that the other day. Since I sleep alone or with my cats, I have never gotten any constructive feedback regarding what I am like during "deep sleep". )

Coming from a Roman Catholic background, I withdrew from rituals and ceremonies though, now, I observe them and even participate in some as I see what the creator was trying to do with some of the rituals/ceremonies. All roads lead to the same goal, so I've learned not to criticize or argue about the specific paths that people take depending on their temperaments and level of interest.

Regarding Ramana Maharshi, I must say that I have found him to be incredibly thought-provoking and absorbing though, lately, I haven't been reading him as much in the past. He cleared up a lot of things for me in his own inimitable manner.

The devotional rituals which personalize the divine attributes continue to be appealing, however, and this is true even of Ramana Maharshi. He was once asked why he participates in rituals and ceremonies to which he responded that, once truth is discovered, he could think of nothing better with which to occupy his time. I can understand that. Like yourself, I also loved the epics --- the Mahabharata and the Ramayana --- as well as the Yog Vashistha, which was mind-boggling at times.

Lastly, I found it interesting that you went to Borubudur because, although I've been to over 45 countries, that is one place that I've been thinking about but have never visited. I would love to hear your impressions of Borubudur, as that temple has stirred an interest in me.

[Shivani Devi]

For an individual like me, I believe that rituals have a place for cultivating mindfulness and as a preparatory exercise for meditation - especially if the locus of awareness is external...and for everything Ramana said regarding non-duality, his love for Arunachala Shiva...his heart betrayed him every time. For all that Shankaracharya had purportedly written on Advaita Vedanta (when it could have possibility been a Nom de plume for many aspiring philosophers at the time), his love for Kashi Bhairava and the Divine Mother betrayed him every time..If you have not done so already, please check out the Soundarya Lahari and the Ananda Lahari...The most comprehensive texts on Kundalini ever written by an Advaitin...but I digress.

From the Aum, everything emanates...The unity in triplicate (like you said before) ...Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh... inhalation, retention, exhalation...sattva, rajas, tamas...bhur, bhuvah, swah....and that, which the vibration forms as the reflection of itself...The vimarsha of spanda...which is Brahman, Sadashiva and/or Satyanarayana... whichever tickles the heart's desire.

Borubudur is amazing...It is like a carved, three dimensional representation of the Sri Yantra...but slightly different in design...It exemplifies the Agamic standards in temple design and sacred geometry perfectly and gives off such a pure, blissful vibration that it is palpable...and the only places other than that which has a similar effect on me is Angkor Wat and Siem Reap in Cambodia ( I would love to see the river of a thousand lingams) and Mahabalipuram in India...I just have a "thing" for places like this...Maybe a past life "thing".

I guess it comes from going to such places, watching entranced people perform rituals (designed to placate the ego) and just feeling this heavy "vibe"...I mean, the air and atmosphere was thick with it and it became like spiritual food for me... until eventually, I ended up getting involved myself and the joy of being in that state, dancing and singing for Shiva was indescribable.

I really should get back into that, but it isn't as much fun doing it solo...So I guess that's where meditation comes in...and I typed in "meditation" but my phone decided it wanted to put "medication" there instead...I swear my mobile is possessed..

Aum Namah Shivaya

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

For an individual like me, I believe that rituals have a place for cultivating mindfulness and as a preparatory exercise for meditation - especially if the locus of awareness is external...and for everything Ramana said regarding non-duality, his love for Arunachala Shiva...his heart betrayed him every time. For all that Shankaracharya had purportedly written on Advaita Vedanta (when it could have possibility been a Nom de plume for many aspiring philosophers at the time), his love for Kashi Bhairava and the Divine Mother betrayed him every time..If you have not done so already, please check out the Soundarya Lahari and the Ananda Lahari...The most comprehensive texts on Kundalini ever written by an Advaitin...but I digress.

From the Aum, everything emanates...The unity in triplicate (like you said before) ...Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh... inhalation, retention, exhalation...sattva, rajas, tamas...bhur, bhuvah, swah....and that, which the vibration forms as the reflection of itself...The vimarsha of spanda...which is Brahman, Sadashiva and/or Satyanarayana... whichever tickles the heart's desire.

Borubudur is amazing...It is like a carved, three dimensional representation of the Sri Yantra...but slightly different in design...It exemplifies the Agamic standards in temple design and sacred geometry perfectly and gives off such a pure, blissful vibration that it is palpable...and the only places other than that which has a similar effect on me is Angkor Wat and Siem Reap in Cambodia ( I would love to see the river of a thousand lingams) and Mahabalipuram in India...I just have a "thing" for places like this...Maybe a past life "thing".

I guess it comes from going to such places, watching entranced people perform rituals (designed to placate the ego) and just feeling this heavy "vibe"...I mean, the air and atmosphere was thick with it and it became like spiritual food for me... until eventually, I ended up getting involved myself and the joy of being in that state, dancing and singing for Shiva was indescribable.

I really should get back into that, but it isn't as much fun doing it solo...So I guess that's where meditation comes in...and I typed in "meditation" but my phone decided it wanted to put "medication" there instead...I swear my mobile is possessed..

Aum Namah Shivaya

As I've always said, there's some combination of jnana, bhakti, and karma yoga (service) in all of us with one being more dominant in each person depending on temperament. Despite being a jnani, Ramana Maharshi's love for Arunchala Shiva was indeed quite evident. He also enjoyed the rituals of which you speak, as I mentioned earlier, since he "could not think of a better way to occupy his time" even after realization.

The triplicates in unity such as Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva represent different directions that a spiritual aspirant might take with one or the other being dominant in some combination of all three. My dominant inclination is towards Shiva (the Holy Spirit as I see it in Christian terminology).

Since all roads lead to the same goal, one learns not to criticize others or to say that one path is better than another. One intuitively knows which path is best suited to one's spiritual progress.

Borobudur does seem quite inspirational though I hear that it has become somewhat touristy lately. I too loved Angkor Wat, Siam Riep,and the city of ten thousand pagodas on the Irawaddy River (Pagan, Burma).

There is a point at which one must eventually go "solo", as you put it even if it is less fun. Nisargadatta Maharaj once said that "traveling in pairs and groups is for entertainment (fun) only; the real journey is in solitude". I struggled with that initially but eventually conceded that he does have a point there.

I'm heading to sleep now but not before I've read just a little more of the Mandukya Upanishad.

[Shivani Devi]

Namaste.

I just found a free PDF of the Mandukya Upanishad by Swami Krishnananda which, as I recall, was the very first version of it I ever read:

https://www.swami-krishnananda.org/mand_0.html

I sort of "unofficially" associate myself with the Divine Life Society, seeing as how Swami Satyananda Saraswati was my Guru ( I met him as a child) and seeing as how I received Diksha from Swami Chidananda Saraswati back in 2000... and seeing as how I spent a lot of time at the DLS society headquarters in Malaysia..

I recall meeting Swami Venkateshananda who was the most quiet, peaceful soul I have ever met...and his disciple, Swami Kartikeyyan-ji...they all said to me "if you want a purely intellectual synopsis on any of the Upanishads, that is what Swami Krishnananda DOES.. he's always in his head, that one".

I don't talk about my time in Rishikesh much, as I just saw the dalliance there as a very brief "means unto an end"..However, I have the lineage and the background if anybody asks it of me..and nobody usually does, so I just go "mmmokay, whatever" because I would never want to give personal comment that may put the whole establishment into disrepute.

I agree with you though, to each their own and everybody's beliefs and practices are unique to them...and I can respect that...I just have to learn how to respect others who do not respect mine...not saying they have to follow it or anything...Up to them.

A lot of my beliefs and practices are dualistic...So was Patanjali's...and I like it that way...and trying to change from what I like, to what I dislike, just because I may like it much better after a decade or two of practice, isn't my idea of having a good time...but I also realise that the atman does not like/dislike or "have a good time"...The Bhagavad-Gita tells us that, however, not being equanamous plays a very important part in individual preference..

So, I will now go back to my Christopher (Hareesh) Wallis lectures on Patanjali, meanwhile thinking if there ever was a school/teaching that commensurates with my beliefs as they stand now, and have done so for the past few decades, it would be this one:
http://www.sanatansociety.com/artist...ri_history.htm

Meanwhile, I was tempted to reply to your post in the Non-duality forum when you said to Miss Hepburn "who is asking?" With "who wants to know?" but seeing as how I was in a totally dualistic mood at the time, I thought better of it. LoL

Aum Namah Shivaya