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  #11  
Old 30-03-2018, 08:29 PM
OEN34 OEN34 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eelco
What do you want to know.
AN example may be that throughout the meditation my hip starts to hurt, and I am not able to keep observing that pain from a calm and equanimous place.
I get into thoughts about how I wish it would stop, how I wish meditation time is over or all kinds of other distractions.

Not standing up, before my timer goes of is what makes it a good meditation, sometimes just because I sat through it and observed what happened without giving in to any of the little voices that tell me to do something useful instead of just sitting there.

With Love
Eelco

Thanks, that all makes sense :)

Lately my mind has been going bonkers throughout my sessions, yet as you say, I make it to the end, continually observe each and every thought, and know it's been a good one.

The mind attempts to tell us it's not been productive if it's busy I've found, but it's seeing past that.
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  #12  
Old 31-03-2018, 01:13 AM
Gem Gem is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naturesflow
It was interesting to read this, because this is exactly how I perceive myself now. When you speak, there is a that underlying conscious awareness where by you just "know" yourself long before the words have been shared to know they are in alignment with those basic elements you mention or not. When your not in alignment you know and you can open to yourself and adjust 'the sails' as you unfold in your outward expression, so in this way you move more consciously aware of yourself in each moment. Any conflict or need to "make right" in the external reasons of your own flow, in this way, moves itself consciously aware and can shift in the immediacy of each moment.


I've been doing daily breath meditations again and finding it is very beneficial. Some times it may only be for twenty minutes, sometimes longer. I am trying to find the same space and create this space once again..

My approach to breath is to start by sitting and feel my breathing at the nose. Many say feel the belly rise/fall, or just feel the breath in general, but there are reasons I don't go for that myself.

I feel small as space as possible because the subtle sensation is very small and fast changing. If we feel a large area like belly rising/falling, we feel a generalised sensation over a large space, but that more general sensation is made of millions of smaller, subtler sensations.

To feel the more general sensation is very easy, but feeling the subtle parts that make it up actually requires focus.

If the object is gross and easy to feel then it doesn't require any concentrated focus to feel it. The meditator is only trying to hold the mind still on a gross level of perception. It has a calming effect, but it's not going to bring awareness through to the subtlest levels of body.

In my practice I sit, and I feel the general area of nostrils and upper lip. When I feel air blowing anywhere in that area, I watch that (it's not so easy to feel). I focus on the air blowing feeling and discover it is made of smaller dynamic parts, so I watch a smaller, subtler part of it - as the mind calms and focuses in some more, if something even more subtle is noticed, then I observe that subtler movement of air.

In this way we do keep attention on an object, but in addition to that, we train the mind to become really sensitive and sharply perceptive to the subtler levels of sensation.

This translates to body awareness later on, because body awareness, like breath awareness, is not just being able to feel the body at a gross hard solid level. It's bringing awareness deep into the subtle body.

Of course, breath awareness and body awareness is a 'physical meditition', and it isn't directly attempting to produce a spacious mind, but the calm concentration of focus needed to feel out the subtlest feeling possible results in a 'meditative mind'. It's just our purpose is to feel for the lightest touch of the air as we can, and this simply requires the mind to quieten down. Hence we don't try to quieten the mind or produce any state, we only try to feel the softest touch that we can.
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  #13  
Old 31-03-2018, 09:25 AM
Eelco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OEN34
Thanks, that all makes sense :)

Lately my mind has been going bonkers throughout my sessions, yet as you say, I make it to the end, continually observe each and every thought, and know it's been a good one.

The mind attempts to tell us it's not been productive if it's busy I've found, but it's seeing past that.


Yes..

My favorite is the one where I wait for the timer to go off without looking how long it has to run for.
I feel the tension building up and building up and building up reaching near unbearable states..
And then when it goes off. there's a release and I could sit for another 30 minutes easily.

All self created tension, stress, release when in fact nothing changed but the idea of a timer going off. and at some point he sound of it actually going off.

WIth Love
Eelco
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  #14  
Old 31-03-2018, 11:45 AM
Golden Eagle Golden Eagle is offline
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In China "Meditation" means "BE STILL AND DO NOTHING"

that alone creates NEW NEURAL pathways which EVOLVES Consciousness ~

MINDFULLNESS is another matter ~ BRINGING AWARENESS into THINKING, which is too break up HABITUAL mind habits ...... habitual TRAPS

Use MINDFULLNESS all day!

Meditation .... Start the Day and Finish the Day ..... just 5 minutes is enough.

Meditation in Nature is best ~

Mindfullness EVERYWHERE~

In time you will be able to Meditate anywhere~
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  #15  
Old 31-03-2018, 12:12 PM
OEN34 OEN34 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eelco
Yes..

My favorite is the one where I wait for the timer to go off without looking how long it has to run for.
I feel the tension building up and building up and building up reaching near unbearable states..
And then when it goes off. there's a release and I could sit for another 30 minutes easily.

All self created tension, stress, release when in fact nothing changed but the idea of a timer going off. and at some point he sound of it actually going off.

WIth Love
Eelco

Ha, yes, I think we've all been there checking on the timer before. But it has a lot to be said when you can simply notice the resistance to check the timer and not follow up on it. If you do, then that's okay, too. Certainly not worth beating ourselves up over :)

I'm finding lately I have a real desire to meditate several times per day, so I'm doing just that
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  #16  
Old 31-03-2018, 01:24 PM
sky sky is offline
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Qigong is not traditionally looked at by the West as a form of Mindfulness Meditation, but it has many mindfulness aspects to it. As you exercise, you become aware of your movements, your breath and your thoughts. You also learn to release your thoughts without judgment as you move from one stance to another, you can't move into your next stance without leaving the previous one behind, just being aware of each moment in each movement brings mindfulness into it.
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  #17  
Old 31-03-2018, 09:35 PM
Rain95 Rain95 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eelco
What do you want to know.
AN example may be that throughout the meditation my hip starts to hurt, and I am not able to keep observing that pain from a calm and equanimous place.
I get into thoughts about how I wish it would stop, how I wish meditation time is over or all kinds of other distractions.

What if one was not attached to a calm and equanimous place? Then the pain could be meditation as well. The noise and quiet, the suffering and peace, pain and pleasure, all the same. Without importance. All transitory.
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  #18  
Old 31-03-2018, 11:06 PM
naturesflow naturesflow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
My approach to breath is to start by sitting and feel my breathing at the nose. Many say feel the belly rise/fall, or just feel the breath in general, but there are reasons I don't go for that myself.

I feel small as space as possible because the subtle sensation is very small and fast changing. If we feel a large area like belly rising/falling, we feel a generalised sensation over a large space, but that more general sensation is made of millions of smaller, subtler sensations.

To feel the more general sensation is very easy, but feeling the subtle parts that make it up actually requires focus.

If the object is gross and easy to feel then it doesn't require any concentrated focus to feel it. The meditator is only trying to hold the mind still on a gross level of perception. It has a calming effect, but it's not going to bring awareness through to the subtlest levels of body.

In my practice I sit, and I feel the general area of nostrils and upper lip. When I feel air blowing anywhere in that area, I watch that (it's not so easy to feel). I focus on the air blowing feeling and discover it is made of smaller dynamic parts, so I watch a smaller, subtler part of it - as the mind calms and focuses in some more, if something even more subtle is noticed, then I observe that subtler movement of air.

In this way we do keep attention on an object, but in addition to that, we train the mind to become really sensitive and sharply perceptive to the subtler levels of sensation.

This translates to body awareness later on, because body awareness, like breath awareness, is not just being able to feel the body at a gross hard solid level. It's bringing awareness deep into the subtle body.

Of course, breath awareness and body awareness is a 'physical meditition', and it isn't directly attempting to produce a spacious mind, but the calm concentration of focus needed to feel out the subtlest feeling possible results in a 'meditative mind'. It's just our purpose is to feel for the lightest touch of the air as we can, and this simply requires the mind to quieten down. Hence we don't try to quieten the mind or produce any state, we only try to feel the softest touch that we can.

Beautiful. I know you have mentioned this before, but I think I am ready now to give this a go. I know a few people who this will also support when we come together to meditate and talk about these things..

Thankyou.
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  #19  
Old 01-04-2018, 02:18 AM
Gem Gem is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
Just to make a broad statement as an overview: In Buddhist philosophy, kamma mainly relates to the intent, and intent produces the potential for outcomes. This implies that what manifests as experience is not kamma itself, but the result of kamma.

Fortunate or unfortunate experiences are not 'your kamma'. They are outcomes of Kamma (intent). Kamma itself only exists in the moment, but it produces potentials that can be passed to the next moment, and these manifest in experience when all the necessary conditions come together.

The potentials are usually called 'sankara'. 'Sankara' is also used in other ways, but at least in my narrative here, 'sankara' will refer to the created potentials. In short, with every kamma (intent), sankara (potential) is created.

Kamma, intent, motive, volition, is in one sense the same as 'craving'. But intent also relates to the subject area of 'metta' in terms of 'good-will', and its antagonist, 'ill-will'. These deeper more general motives determine the nature of outcomes. Good-will producing the potentials for good outcomes, and ill-will producing the potentials for outcomes of suffering.

That's how I can sum it up without getting too much into complicated detail.

To clarify terms:

Kamma = intent, volition, motive, will
Sankara = the potential created by kamma

The main point is that kamma only exists now. Sankaras generated depend on the nature on kamma, and as potentials, they carry forward into subsequent moments.

In most spiritual contexts, a meditation teacher will give instruction on 'how to meditate', and the students simply obey. But 'how do I meditate' is a different question to 'what is meditation'. The mentioned teacher is coming from the 'how perspective' which offers no rationale to the understanding of 'what it is'. To me, it is far better to discuss 'what it is' because if a person understands it insightfully, they will know internally 'how'. Their practice will be discerned by understanding the principle rather than indiscriminately following in obedience. It is very important that one discerns rather than obeys, so the subject of 'what is it' is the relevant one.

This is a much more difficult one to articulate...
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Last edited by Gem : 01-04-2018 at 07:08 AM.
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  #20  
Old 01-04-2018, 02:44 AM
Gem Gem is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naturesflow
Beautiful. I know you have mentioned this before, but I think I am ready now to give this a go. I know a few people who this will also support when we come together to meditate and talk about these things..

Thankyou.
I try to explain things so they make sense, so I don't contextualise it as simple instruction, but rather, try to explain the rationale or the principle behind why it is practiced in the way it is.

I want people to practice from their own understanding, and when I talk in a thread like this, there is no 'information' to be used later on... it's more like through listening something clicks and a new understanding emerges within oneself which refines their way of meditation. A realisation like , "I see" occurs inside, and one hones the practice through such a realisation. From an undertanding within rather than an instruction from outside.
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