They reveal themselves

[minxoto]

I have an old friend that is a weekend-alcoholic. He gets so drunk that he almost blacks out. He has a very peculiar behavior and say many strange things.

Now I understand that he actually can't help revealing himself.

I know God and Jesus is a good thing for alcoholics because the faith gives an option to hide ones (or the family tree) all it's sins. In addition one don't get any reason to be bad against others (which includes filling us with their own waste of words).

But christianity is not the only helpful thing. One can go far with psychology also - maybe at least get so close that one pressures forward a need to pray.

My old friend talked a lot about telepathy when he was drinking. He was only joking though (he's no believer in spiritual or supernatural stuff) - but now I wonder. What is he hiding? What doesn't he want to talk about? Is it some sin? His or his family?

How can I get closer to this? Should I confront him with an e-mail or just pray for him? Do any of you wise friends of Spiritual Forum have any suggestions or experiences with this?

I'm thinking - I want to pressure him to pray or confess - but I'm not sure if direct confrontation is the smartest thing? I have an ace in my sleeve when I know that he hides a sin and at the same time he doesn't know that I know. Or should I let him know that I know?

[Ab Origine]

Hi Folks..

I'm thinking - I want to pressure him to pray or confess - but I'm not sure if direct confrontation is the smartest thing? I have an ace in my sleeve when I know that he hides a sin and at the same time he doesn't know that I know. Or should I let him know that I know?

Ah - mate - don't take this the wrong way - but actually - you should do NOTHING - as I can see from the post above, you yourself are struggling....Look - you DONT KOW if he has "sin" or not - that YOU projecting your own beliefs into his life !!!

Are you "superior" to him now then, that you feel a right to "pressure him" into doing things YOUR WAY ..??...Who gave you any such authority over him..??...

I know God and Jesus is a good thing for alcoholics because the faith gives an option to hide ones (or the family tree) all it's sins. In addition one don't get any reason to be bad against others (which includes filling us with their own waste of words).

See now this is precisely why you should do nothing - you yourself don't understand what sin or salvation ACTUALLY is, judging from what you put above - as you say this religion gives you an option to HIDE YOUR SIN - which is actually TOTALLY CONTRARY to what Christ taught, as in KNOW THY SELF FULLY - so called sin and all of it !! We are SUPPOSED to come to a full Self disclosure here - NOT hide from all our bad bits or have some wishful thinking rubbish that "jesus saves" us now just by belief...The religion itself - Its spiritual truth IS A SHAM - and you should NEVER point anyone off t that religion or that god for their "salvation"- after all - CHRIST taught directly that those so called religious leaders have NO TRUTH to give you He said, yes..?..

The FAITH of the religion MAY be beneficial as it gives your mate something to hold onto, a brighter PROMISE of a better future - but that is all its good for in truth - the COMMUNITY of church may be good for your friend - but rest assured if he goes to church and confesses his alcoholism, then they wil all accept him at the surface, but I guarantee they will shun and avoid him and wish he never came - religious Christians are simply the worse hypocrits in the world when it comes to this "sin" issue ..

Its pointless trying to FORCE "truth" on him that neither you nor the religion understand properly, isn't it..??..Teach him instead how to MEDITATE if you know how - or both of you learn together and become like "study buddies" - honestly though, forget the religion itself, you will do far more harm than good - and don't get so hung up on HIS so caled sin - you don't ACTUALLY know whats going on in his mind do you, so take a step sideways - its not your place to force anything on him, mate, so be wary....

Now look though - I live with an alcoholic - know all about
it directly - I tell you a simple truth, nothing you even try will work at all, not until THEY become ready and start seeking for more than oblivion.... You can NOT force that change on them at all, and if you try you will just make it worse, he will run hide rebel, reach for the bottle and there you will have FORCED him to do the very thing you intended to prevent !!

Personally I cannot abide alcohol - makes you become absolutely Consciously dead - incapable of coherent thought - destroys the mind and so destroys the Souls imperative, in a very direct manner, prevents us from interacting with the subtle spiritual realities that always surround us and so literally lock the Mind inside its physical cage and then destroys that mind from the inside out... Alcohol SHOULD be avoided at all costs if you guys really want to know spiritual truth then avoid excessive alcohol for the demon brew that it truly is.....Its like there is indeed - an influence within the mind - that forbids anything "good" or "holy" if we prefer - and has that mind instead, crave always and concentrate on, the negative, the confrontation and the evil.....

I feel very sorry for you my friend - as I say I know exactly what you face - its going to be au uphill struggle with little to no thanks - persevere if you can mate - such people truly do need a friend to look out for them...

[minxoto]

Originally Posted by Ab Origine

I feel very sorry for you my friend - as I say I know exactly what you face - its going to be au uphill struggle with little to no thanks - persevere if you can mate - such people truly do need a friend to look out for them...

Thank you very much - now I know what to do. You say "look out for them" - now I know I need to be his eyes because he's not able to see for himself. I don't need to say anything - just be his eyes.

Again - thank you!

Originally Posted by minxoto

I have an old friend that is a weekend-alcoholic. He gets so drunk that he almost blacks out. He has a very peculiar behavior and say many strange things.

Now I understand that he actually can't help revealing himself.

I know God and Jesus is a good thing for alcoholics because the faith gives an option to hide ones (or the family tree) all it's sins. In addition one don't get any reason to be bad against others (which includes filling us with their own waste of words).

But christianity is not the only helpful thing. One can go far with psychology also - maybe at least get so close that one pressures forward a need to pray.

My old friend talked a lot about telepathy when he was drinking. He was only joking though (he's no believer in spiritual or supernatural stuff) - but now I wonder. What is he hiding? What doesn't he want to talk about? Is it some sin? His or his family?

How can I get closer to this? Should I confront him with an e-mail or just pray for him? Do any of you wise friends of Spiritual Forum have any suggestions or experiences with this?

I'm thinking - I want to pressure him to pray or confess - but I'm not sure if direct confrontation is the smartest thing? I have an ace in my sleeve when I know that he hides a sin and at the same time he doesn't know that I know. Or should I let him know that I know?

1Cor 6:9-11--- drunkards will NOT enter Gods kingdom--as well as many other sins listed there, which i believe includes--drug addiction. Confessing is good--but the stopping of the doing of A sin = real repentence.

[minxoto]

Ab origine:

Now I think i know better what you mean:

I don't drink alcohol - but I drink the spiritual and symbolic wine of Jesus. I can't look out for myself - I'm abusive and a sinner. That's why I need the devil.

Those who drink alcohol for real, are neither abusive or sinners. They can look out for themselves. That's why they need Jesus.

[white pegasus]

minxoto your friend is a weekend alcoholic-what might be helpful for you to gain a better understanding of your friend is to attend open AA mtgs-the AA is Alcoholics Anonymous

Continue to pray for your friend-he is the only one who can look within and find his truth-if he has a desire to stop drinking-take him to a closed aa mtg

[minxoto]

Originally Posted by white pegasus

minxoto your friend is a weekend alcoholic-what might be helpful for you to gain a better understanding of your friend is to attend open AA mtgs-the AA is Alcoholics Anonymous

Continue to pray for your friend-he is the only one who can look within and find his truth-if he has a desire to stop drinking-take him to a closed aa mtg

To be honest he's really no friend. He can go his own way.

[sky]

Originally Posted by minxoto

Ab origine:

Now I think i know better what you mean:

I don't drink alcohol - but I drink the spiritual and symbolic wine of Jesus. I can't look out for myself - I'm abusive and a sinner. That's why I need the devil.

Those who drink alcohol for real, are neither abusive or sinners. They can look out for themselves. That's why they need Jesus.

People who need alcohol to get through each day are ill, they need help, love and understanding, but their carers/partners/families also need protection, they are not there to be abused by the alcoholic.

[Ab Origine]

Hi Folks..

Minxoto;

Thank you very much - now I know what to do. You say "look out for them" - now I know I need to be his eyes because he's not able to see for himself. I don't need to say anything - just be his eyes.

Hmm - look out for them - as in watch they don't inadvertantly hurt themselves - burn the house down while drunk or some such, you know..??.. watch out for them in the sense that you don't let others around take advantage of them - alcoholics tend to congregate together, safest with their own kind, its never good, the blind truly do lead the blind then - so keep your Self vigilant, do what you can when you can - but - FORCE NOTHING - we don't have that right..

And yes mate - SPEAK TO HIM - very PLAINLY - in fact, plain speaking is the ONLY thing that will get through - they will build for themselves all manner of excuses and reasons WHY they try to destroy themselves with alcohol - most don't even realise that IS what they are actually trying to do - so strip away all their defenses first, reveal their nature to them, by pointing out there real world situation that, trust me, they will be largely oblivious to, for as said alcohol directly impairs the Minds ability to have coherent thought - destroys the mind..

No matter WHAT excuse or reason they give - fact is it IS A CHOICE they make to drink - Im sorry to disagree but I my Self don't see this as any kind of "illness" - it has no physical componant - alcohol is NOT actually addictive by itself, but the mindset that led to alcoholism is the thing that must be addressed - so always speak directly and truly - don't hide the truth from them - don't allow them to hide the truth from themself.. so - get them to see WHY they choose it - no matter how hard it is for them to bare, its much better than leaving them to become brain dead through alcohol. and thereby consciously incapable of change...

I don't drink alcohol - but I drink the spiritual and symbolic wine of Jesus. I can't look out for myself - I'm abusive and a sinner. That's why I need the devil.

Those who drink alcohol for real, are neither abusive or sinners. They can look out for themselves. That's why they need Jesus.

So Ive read that a few times now, trying to get to your meaning, but I find it very confusing... Why cant you look out for your Self..?... Why do you think you need the devil..??.. Now "sin" - is not what you have been taught - it is only the guidance of this limited mortal surface mind - that is all "sin" is, following this broken mind its surface desires and therefore MISSING the guidance of the inner Divine - trust me that IS all sin is ACTUALLY - you MISSED THE MARK is what it actually means - you failed to achieve the intent, because you didn't engage your Self properly - that is ALL sin is Folks - its not even a "spiritual condition" - it is a MORTAL condition tied intimately to your own Self understanding..

Make no mistake - those who become alocoholics are simply the WORSE abusers on the planet - not only do they abuse their own Self, but they then allow that to spill out on all around, often as hatred, spite, jealousy confrontation - violence even and they will CRAVE all that the more they drink for they ARE trying to destroy them self and escape this world they obviously detest... And yes of course, they are also the worse "sinners" in the world - using its proper definition - because simply the alcoholic becomes INCAPABLE of coherant thought - so obviously then if the mind is already broken divided (it is) then alcohol will just promote that inner divide lock them at the surface mind and so they will indeed ALWAYS miss the inner Divine, have absolutely no way to come to know it directly, and so obviously, will always be "lost in sin" as sin IS this broken divided mortal mind...Alcohol leads DIRECTLY to legitimate sin and can do nothing else as alcohol destroys the Mind, and sin IS that guidance from a broken mind..

To be honest he's really no friend. He can go his own way.

NO MATE !! Stop and think !!! He IS your friend - you felt compelled to bring his plight here to discuss openly, so obviously he IS important to you, yes..??. So its HARD yes, and a thankless task - so WHAT..?...My friend, what if I told you - you are ETERNAL - no matter what this life throws at you, you have already survived it, yes..?.. Surely you can spare some time and patience for Others around who do not realise this for them Self - and if you engage him on that deep personal level then rest assured you will also uncover deep significant truths about your own Self.... this here - a desire to turn your back on your friend - that is NOT your truth - that is a reaction to the world out there as it piles the sh^t on day after day - its natural to want to give up and say enough is enough - but you will do your Self and your friend a grave disservice if you allow that weakness to dominate..

Be strong mate - you ARE fully capable - and look - in the process itself you will indeed uncover just how capable you actually are, reveal truths and strengths from within your own Self that you may not yet realise you actually have..

[minxoto]

He's no friend - that's why I will keep on bugging him by sending him bible-verses. He hates the truth! That I love. :-)