God did not quite say his name was I AM.

[jonesboy]

In Judaism the name of God has changed over time.

More important than the name, research what the bible says God is and where is Heaven.

The answers may surprise you.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

In Judaism the name of God has changed over time.

More important than the name, research what the bible says God is and where is Heaven.

The answers may surprise you.

Genesis 1:1 says according to which translation you are using that God created the Heaven or Heavens. Which translation is accurate? Heaven or Heavens?

Tradition has it there are 7 heavens. bb

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

Genesis 1:1 says according to which translation you are using that God created the Heaven or Heavens. Which translation is accurate? Heaven or Heavens?

Tradition has it there are 7 heavens. bb

Personally I would throw out the entire old testament..

But again.. where is heaven?

Then you will know your answer.

[django]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Personally I would throw out the entire old testament..

But again.. where is heaven?

Then you will know your answer.

“The kingdom of God is within you,” is interpreted as all of God's power and truth are built into you.

The word “within in the Greek is “entos,” which is accurately translated “in the midst of”. So it really should be understood as Jesus saying the Kingdom of God is within your midst, or among you. In other words, wherever Jesus is, it accompanies him. What it does NOT mean is that it resides in everyone.

It does not mean inside man because of whom Jesus was addressing – the Pharisees. They rejected Jesus and his teachings.

Jesus told this same group of Pharisees that rejected him "You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do” (John 8:44).
[not all the Pharisees disbelieved, a small portion of them believed Jesus]. Furthermore, Jesus taught one of the Pharisees specifically that to enter the kingdom he must be born again (John 3), to have a spiritual birth, even though he was the teacher to the people of Israel.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Personally I would throw out the entire old testament..

But again.. where is heaven?

Then you will know your answer.

Have you been Heaven?

If you been were the birds fly, you made it.

If you ever been in airplane and flown thru were snow/rain/sleet/hail is stored - you have been in another Heaven.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

'I AM'...haha, reminds me of a little boy that just realizes he exists!
Blurts out with Joy ...I Exist!....I'm Alive!...I AM!

Well said !

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by django

“The kingdom of God is within you,” is interpreted as all of God's power and truth are built into you.

The word “within in the Greek is “entos,” which is accurately translated “in the midst of”. So it really should be understood as Jesus saying the Kingdom of God is within your midst, or among you. In other words, wherever Jesus is, it accompanies him. What it does NOT mean is that it resides in everyone.

It does not mean inside man because of whom Jesus was addressing – the Pharisees. They rejected Jesus and his teachings.

Jesus told this same group of Pharisees that rejected him "You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do” (John 8:44).
[not all the Pharisees disbelieved, a small portion of them believed Jesus]. Furthermore, Jesus taught one of the Pharisees specifically that to enter the kingdom he must be born again (John 3), to have a spiritual birth, even though he was the teacher to the people of Israel.

Jesus didn't speak Greek, so why are you using Greek

3. Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you. When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."

The Pharisees (/ ˈ f ær ə ˌ s iː z /) were at various times a political party, a social movement, and a school of thought in the Holy Land during the time of Second Temple Judaism.After the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 CE, Pharisaic beliefs became the foundational, liturgical and ritualistic basis for Rabbinic Judaism..

So the Pharisees was the church at the time..

39. Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so. As for you, be as sly as snakes and as simple as doves."

Jesus saying they don't know how to enter into heaven.. they don't know what they are talking about...

102. Jesus said, "Damn the Pharisees! They are like a dog sleeping in the cattle manger: the dog neither eats nor [lets] the cattle eat."

They have no realization and there teachings keep others from realizing the truth.

50. Jesus said, "If they say to you, 'Where have you come from?' say to them, 'We have come from the light, from the place where the light came into being by itself, established [itself], and appeared in their image.' If they say to you, 'Is it you?' say, 'We are its children, and we are the chosen of the living Father.' If they ask you, 'What is the evidence of your Father in you?' say to them, 'It is motion and rest.'"

Evidence in you.. not evidence in your midst.. it is the realization of motion and rest.. or if you prefer..

91. They said to him, "Tell us who you are so that we may believe in you." He said to them, "You examine the face of heaven and earth, but you have not come to know the one who is in your presence, and you do not know how to examine the present moment."

When you truly realize the present moment, you realize motion and rest or you could say you realize the light that is within you.

24. His disciples said, "Show us the place where you are, for we must seek it." He said to them, "Anyone here with two ears had better listen! There is light within a person of light, and it shines on the whole world. If it does not shine, it is dark."

[django]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Jesus didn't speak Greek, so why are you using Greek

Jesus would have spoken Aramaic, but the developing Christian audience were largely non-Aramaic speakers, and common Greek, which the bible was written in, was the international language of the day. In certain cases some Aramaic words were still used by the Gospel writers in the New Testament when only the original Aramaic could capture Jesus's meaning.

Before Jesus's time, around 200 BC, the old testament had been translated into Greek.

Have you ever explored what language the Gospel of Thomas was written in? You quote from an Egyptian (coptic version), though this may (or may not) be a translation from a Greek original.

Originally Posted by jonesboy

3. Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you. When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."

To know yourself is the gnostic imperative, to know Jesus is the Christian imperative. I think a mix of the two is most valuable, know thyself and know Jesus. Perhaps the Christian church were pulled too far towards only faith in Jesus as the Christ, while the gnostics have no need for faith whatsoever.

Originally Posted by jonesboy

was the language of scholarship during the years of the composition of the New Testament from 50 to 100 AD.
The Pharisees (/ ˈ f ær ə ˌ s iː z /) were at various times a political party, a social movement, and a school of thought in the Holy Land during the time of Second Temple Judaism.After the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 CE, Pharisaic beliefs became the foundational, liturgical and ritualistic basis for Rabbinic Judaism..

So the Pharisees was the church at the time..

39. Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so. As for you, be as sly as snakes and as simple as doves."

Jesus saying they don't know how to enter into heaven.. they don't know what they are talking about...

102. Jesus said, "Damn the Pharisees! They are like a dog sleeping in the cattle manger: the dog neither eats nor [lets] the cattle eat."

They have no realization and there teachings keep others from realizing the truth.

I agree the Pharisees are considered as having no realization, therefore how does the Kingdom of Heaven apply to them in the statement "The Kingdom of heaven is within you and it is outside of you"? Is Jesus saying it is within them?

In what way do you understand the Kingdom of Heaven being outside of you?

Is it inside everyone, including the pharisees "who have no realization"? Is it inside the murderers and tyrants of this world? The brutal dictators, ISIS?

Originally Posted by jonesboy

50. Jesus said, "If they say to you, 'Where have you come from?' say to them, 'We have come from the light, from the place where the light came into being by itself, established [itself], and appeared in their image.' If they say to you, 'Is it you?' say, 'We are its children, and we are the chosen of the living Father.' If they ask you, 'What is the evidence of your Father in you?' say to them, 'It is motion and rest.'"

Evidence in you.. not evidence in your midst.. it is the realization of motion and rest.. or if you prefer..

The gnostics are so keen on themselves. The evidence of the Father was in Jesus, he was the one doing miracles of healing and transmutation, he was the one bringing people back from the dead including himself, when you or any other gnostic demonstrates these abilities, that will be good evidence of the Kingdom of Heaven within you. Until then it is not evident, it's just words. Words are very cheap.

Originally Posted by jonesboy

91. They said to him, "Tell us who you are so that we may believe in you." He said to them, "You examine the face of heaven and earth, but you have not come to know the one who is in your presence, and you do not know how to examine the present moment."

When you truly realize the present moment, you realize motion and rest or you could say you realize the light that is within you.

24. His disciples said, "Show us the place where you are, for we must seek it." He said to them, "Anyone here with two ears had better listen! There is light within a person of light, and it shines on the whole world. If it does not shine, it is dark."

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by django

Jesus would have spoken Aramaic, but the developing Christian audience were largely non-Aramaic speakers, and common Greek, which the bible was written in, was the international language of the day. In certain cases some Aramaic words were still used by the Gospel writers in the New Testament when only the original Aramaic could capture Jesus's meaning.

You are confusing the writings of the Gospels with the creation of the bible. The Gospels. Here is some history on the topic.

https://www.catholic.com/qa/was-matt...maic-or-hebrew

Before Jesus's time, around 200 BC, the old testament had been translated into Greek.

What is interesting is that there are no original greek copies of the gospels as are there are no original Hebrew copies.

Have you ever explored what language the Gospel of Thomas was written in? You quote from an Egyptian (coptic version), though this may (or may not) be a translation from a Greek original.

Yes, there are a couple of copies one being coptic which would fit since the Disciples wrote the gospels in various languages to fit the audience in which the were writing it.

To know yourself is the gnostic imperative, to know Jesus is the Christian imperative. I think a mix of the two is most valuable, know thyself and know Jesus. Perhaps the Christian church were pulled too far towards only faith in Jesus as the Christ, while the gnostics have no need for faith whatsoever.

That is absolutely untrue about faith. It is about the journey and were to find the truth, or God.

You are purely referencing the Roman Churches view that it is only faith. The Eastern Orthodox Church which is just as old as the Roman church is all about Theosis.

Theosis, or deification, is a transformative process whose aim is likeness to or union with God, as taught by the Eastern Orthodox Church and Eastern Catholic Churches. As a process of transformation, theosis is brought about by the effects of catharsis (purification of mind and body) and theoria ('illumination' with the 'vision' of God). According to Eastern Christian teaching, theosis is very much the purpose of human life. It is considered achievable only through a synergy (or cooperation) between human activity and God's uncreated energies (or operations).

If you look at the writings of the saints of Eastern Orthodoxy you see some beautiful stuff.

“Let no one deceive you! God is light (11) and to those who have entered into union with Him He imparts of His own brightness to the extent that they have been purified. When the lamp of the soul, that is the mind, has been kindled, then it knows that a divine fire has taken hold of it and inflamed it. How great a marvel! Man is united to God spiritually and physically, since the soul is not separated from the mind, neither the body from the soul… It is evident that just as the Father abides in His own Son (12) and the Son in His Father’s bosom (13) by nature, so those who have been born anew through the divine Spirit (14) and by His gift have become the brothers of Christ our God and sons of God and gods by adoption, by grace abide in God and God in them (15).”


St Symeon The New Theologian And Messalianism

“We become members of Christ - and Christ becomes our members,
Christ becomes my hand, Christ my miserable foot;
And I, unhappy one, am Christ’s hand, Christ’s foot!
…Living with God at the same time, we shall become gods,
…Made completely like Christ in our whole body”

St. Symeon.

It is a realization, a change in being. Did Jesus not say that faith alone or good deeds would not get one to heaven.

I agree the Pharisees are considered as having no realization, therefore how does the Kingdom of Heaven apply to them in the statement "The Kingdom of heaven is within you and it is outside of you"? Is Jesus saying it is within them?

We can realize Heaven, it is there for all of us. But it is much like asking directions. If the place you want to go is to the left but all the experts keep telling you it is to the right you will never find it if all you do is listen to them.

In what way do you understand the Kingdom of Heaven being outside of you?

Non-Dual. There is nothing that is not you, that is separate from you, from the Father. When you realize that, you have realized heaven.

Is it inside everyone, including the pharisees "who have no realization"? Is it inside the murderers and tyrants of this world? The brutal dictators, ISIS?

Of course, it is just clouded over by there wants, fears and desires, by the ego.

The gnostics are so keen on themselves. The evidence of the Father was in Jesus, he was the one doing miracles of healing and transmutation, he was the one bringing people back from the dead including himself, when you or any other gnostic demonstrates these abilities, that will be good evidence of the Kingdom of Heaven within you. Until then it is not evident, it's just words. Words are very cheap.

Would you accept Taoist immortals who have done the same? How about Buddha's that have done the same? All before Jesus.. Yet it is still very rare even in those traditions to do what Jesus did. Not all realized beings demonstrate the realization like Jesus.

Again you are disparaging the gnostics but you don't realize that there are entire christian traditions that also believe the journey or the truth is within.

[jonesboy]

Because this isn't a Christian section if you were looking for a Jewish example have you studied Jewish Kabbalah?

Kabbalah (also spelled Kabalah, Cabala, Qabala)—sometimes translated as “mysticism” or “occult knowledge—is a part of Jewish tradition that deals with the essence of God. Whether it entails a sacred text, an experience, or the way things work, Kabbalists believe that God moves in mysterious ways. However, Kabbalists also believe that true knowledge and understanding of that inner, mysterious process is obtainable, and through that knowledge, the greatest intimacy with God can be attained.

The Zohar, a collection of written, mystical commentaries on the Torah, is considered to be the underpinning of Kabbalah. Written in medieval Aramaic and medieval Hebrew, the Zohar is intended to guide Kabbalists in their spiritual journey, helping them attain the greater levels of connectedness with God that they desire.

Kabbalistic thought often is considered Jewish mysticism. Its practitioners tend to view the Creator and the Creation as a continuum, rather than as discrete entities, and they desire to experience intimacy with God. This desire is especially intense because of the powerful mystical sense of kinship that Kabbalists believe exists between God and humanity. Within the soul of every individual is a hidden part of God that is wait*ing to be revealed. Even mystics who refuse to describe such a fusion of God and man so boldly, still find the whole of Creation suffused in divinity, breaking down distinctions between God and the universe. Thus, the Kabbalist Moses Cordovero writes, “The essence of divin*ity is found in every single thing, nothing but It exists….It exists in each existent.”