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  #241  
Old 29-11-2017, 12:12 AM
sentient sentient is offline
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Thank you Jonesboy for bringing this subject/concept up, because I have struggled with it a bit.

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For those interested there are many past threads discussing the inner heart/8th chakra. But, try to describe it can be very challenging as it is really more like a fundamental shift than a "thing". It is also particularly hard to explain with astral types as they tend to think of it as chakras above the head that they can see.

Maybe try to think about it like this... People live in a bubble of (individual) self. What people call chakras or dantiens are kind of different layers (or sheaths) of those aspects of self. The higher you go in the sheaths/chakras the more of the dimensional universe you can see or perceive. But, while no matter how big the bubble gets, while inside of it you have a relative dualistic view of reality. You may be able to see in the distance or another dimension, but there is still an individual bodymind "you" that is seeing it. When you start to crack open the bubble of self, you start to kind of shift from "seeing" to more "being". Like what to used to be on the outside with seeing as separate is now known to be on the inside.

It is called the inner heart because the first thing noticed is kind of like a universal human soul layer. It feels like first your family/friends and then later everyone are in (or can be accessed) inside your heart. With focus, you literally can feel other beings heart beat.
Maybe I am or maybe I am not barking at the same or similar tree here, but apart from our dualistic projections, there is also an energetic engagement with the perceived that can also be called “seeing”.

And talking about trees. There is a special tree in town I used to watch that has a palpable energy field and a glowing aura.
And my thoughts were: To see/feel the Aura of a tree is to understand the Heart of the tree.
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  #242  
Old 29-11-2017, 03:23 AM
blossomingtree blossomingtree is offline
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Some people are so attached to their own ideas/selves that even if Jesus or Gautama were to appear, they would be like "Uh-uh no. It's my thoughts and judgement or the highway" - and they go on to praise and promulgate their understandings as if that compares to the genuine spiritual knowledge of the Adepts. The really funny thing about this is that they cannot imagine anything past their limitations, and so they promote the view that there couldn't possibly be more than they know about - well aren't we fortunate there's more to life than we can imagine and so such conceit will naturally be overridden over time
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  #243  
Old 29-11-2017, 03:49 AM
revolver revolver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blossomingtree
Some people are so attached to their own ideas/selves that even if Jesus or Gautama were to appear, they would be like "Uh-uh no. It's my thoughts and judgement or the highway" - and they go on to praise and promulgate their understandings as if that compares to the genuine spiritual knowledge of the Adepts. The really funny thing about this is that they cannot imagine anything past their limitations, and so they promote the view that there couldn't possibly be more than they know about - well aren't we fortunate there's more to life than we can imagine and so such conceit will naturally be overridden over time
But then you get those who believe in anything .
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  #244  
Old 29-11-2017, 07:03 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blossomingtree
Some people are so attached to their own ideas/selves that even if Jesus or Gautama were to appear, they would be like "Uh-uh no. It's my thoughts and judgement or the highway" - and they go on to praise and promulgate their understandings as if that compares to the genuine spiritual knowledge of the Adepts. The really funny thing about this is that they cannot imagine anything past their limitations, and so they promote the view that there couldn't possibly be more than they know about - well aren't we fortunate there's more to life than we can imagine and so such conceit will naturally be overridden over time
Of course you must also be aware of the adage "If you see Buddha on the highway, kill him". It is our concepts which keep us mired in the illusion and we need to transcend the personal to attain the impersonal. Then we are truly free to adopt the personal aspect once more, within the full existential awareness of its intransigent nature.

For example, some on here, those neo-advatins who profess the teachings of Ramana Maharishi, only take from that the juice of his teachings, and not the entire background or story behind them and thus, misinterpretations and misrepresentations occur.

I (if there is any such thing), go the other way and apply the philosophy of Ramakrishna Paramahamsa who was a great devotee of the Goddess, Kali.

Goddess Kali even appeared to him and you know what he said? "no, I don't want you...even though I love you...I want to obtain Brahman...I want to know the truth" however, because his love for Kali was so great, he couldn't get beyond that stage...so, you know what happened? his guru gave him a sword and said to Ramakrishna "next time Kali appears, run her through...don't even hesitate for a split second" and so, following his guru's advice, Ramakrishna did just that...attained Brahman on the spot...then went back to worshiping Goddess Kali again, but this time, it was different, even though nothing had changed from before. He had gone from Bhakti to Parabhakti.

"First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is".

The same happened with myself and Lord Shiva. I didn't want to 'merge' with Shiva or 'become Shiva' because I loved Him too much for that. I achieved Savikalpa Samadhi, but I was stuck...I could not break the Rudra Granthi knot over my third-eye to go all the way there...then I had a vision, like Ramakrishna did and Lord Shiva appeared to me and said "how much do you love me? how much do you trust me?...nothing will change and yet, everything will" and I could only reply "I love and trust you with every fibre of my existence, my Lord" and then He said "well, let it go...let everything go...even that love and trust you have for me"...It was the hardest thing I have EVER had to do in my life...but it was as if Lord Shiva gave me no choice and so, I did...then I realised the formless beyond the form which gave rise to all form...there was no sense of self, no room, no surroundings, no vision of Shiva...just an indescribable feeling that I wasn't feeling...however after that all happened, I went back to worshiping Lord Shiva as if nothing had even changed...and yet, He was right because everything had.
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  #245  
Old 29-11-2017, 12:23 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sentient
Thank you Jonesboy for bringing this subject/concept up, because I have struggled with it a bit.


Maybe I am or maybe I am not barking at the same or similar tree here, but apart from our dualistic projections, there is also an energetic engagement with the perceived that can also be called “seeing”.

And talking about trees. There is a special tree in town I used to watch that has a palpable energy field and a glowing aura.
And my thoughts were: To see/feel the Aura of a tree is to understand the Heart of the tree.

Seeing is a natural progression but remember that all such seeing is a local mind translation of the light. Beyond seeing is being.

Seeing and feeling the tree is much different than being the tree... but still a huge step and congrats!

If you are up for an experiment please let me know :)
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  #246  
Old 29-11-2017, 12:35 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
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Continuing with the story :)

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Question: Thank you for sharing, Jeff. I resonate strongly with your above description.

I frequently experience shakes and chills that correlate with strong energetic flow. When around others, people tend to ask if I am cold; I often times feign agreement.

As things have progressed for you, has this subsided? Care to expand further on what you believe is happening energetically?

Jeff:Yes, over the years it has subsided. I did have one such experience about a month ago, the most recent previously was over five years ago.

The chills and shakes are a manifestion of high energy flows hitting stored energy structures of issues and fears. The energy activity itself is subconscious (or beyond your conscious awareness), but the flow (and hitting stuff) is so strong that it kind of "spills over" into your conscious mind. It is that spilling over that your mind translates into the physical aspects of the shakes and chills. For me, the key was always sort of relaxing into it and not fighting it. Kind of like when waves crash into you at the beach they knock you over, but if you dive under and into the water, the wave is really just a flowing current and motion.

Quote:
Continuing...



With noticing I could move it around, I started pretty constantly playing with the energy over the next few years. With it, I quickly noticed a couple of things. There were sort of "dead zones" in my body, and I could move and play with the energy and think about other stuff at the same time. So I started to spend time trying to address and figure out these two issues.


With the body dead zones, I started focusing on them and bit by bit sort of extending the surrounding live energy zones into the dead places. When I did that, I would often notice that sometimes some issues and fears would come up in my mind. At first I tried to sort of chase the memories that were associated with them, but quickly found that it took me away from the energy itself and just led me back to the other issue of not being able to think and move the energy at the same time. Rather than open the dead zone, it would just sort of distract me and the zone would stay dead. So, after that realization, I would continue to try to stay with the energy itself and not get caught up in the memories, fears and issues.

Additionally, as I would sort of clear out a major area, I would notice after finishing that there was sort of a deeper layer below it were there may still be smaller stuff to deal with. Almost like greater refinement where the opening up process would have to be done all over again. And over time, I noticed that there seemed to be almost endless levels of refinement to deal with.

On not being able to thinking about stuff and feeling/move the energy stuff at the same time, I spent a lot of time trying and experimenting with this with absolutely no luck. No matter what I did, it seemed to be an either or thing. My mind was normally very quiet and it seemed that it was like a switch with only a single point of focus. Just one thing at a time.

Then I talked to someone who was a self proclaimed guru and he suggested that I just watch my thoughts and then try to stop them. Almost like being a traffic cop at an intersection. To me this was kind of silly as I could easily just quiet my mind and have all thoughts just disappear. But, it did get me thinking about tracing thoughts back to the movement of creation. Initially, I would trace them back and get only so far, but then I noticed that as I continued to clear out my body to more refined levels, I could also go back further in the process of the creation of the thought. This was a simple but huge revelation to me at the time.

With that realization, ultimately I was able to push back and kind of find like a "door" where thoughts and the energy of thoughts came into my mind. Also, the cool thing is that seemed to be like infinite energy behind that door...

Maybe more later...

Quote:
This individual working with the energy to continually dive deeper and clear both my body and issues in my mind continued for around 10 years. Along the way, I worked to stay focused and aware in the moment constantly during the day.



While I was pretty good at doing that, I found that there were two glaring holes in my ability to do that. One, and definitely the biggest, was anything to with activities centered around my kids. As an example, all of my kids played competitive sports for many years. And while I would be normally calm and collected in life, I would lose it all with every travel soccer game. My emotions would run rampant and I would get swept up in the fears and concerns around the activity. The second was that when my wife was telling me things about her activities during the day, my mind would wander. Almost like I was being pulled away from the situation.



While I started consciously working on clearing the stuff around those two issues I started to notice the energetic effects between myself and my wife and kids. It was these energetic interactions with others that kind of dominated my next phase of life and practices.
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  #247  
Old 29-11-2017, 12:42 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
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Quote:
Things continued on largely the same until one week when I was on a business trip in Florida. I was driving from the airport to the hotel while listening to music and playing with the energy. Normal mental activity was quiet when I felt like a powerful wave descending down hitting my head and rippling through my body. I immediately thought to myself "what the hell was that". But, amazingly I had been able to keep the energy flowing while I consciously had been thinking. Also, it was like everything got a little brighter and more vibrant.

It is hard to really describe this shift, but it was now like I could do energy meditation stuff while doing any normal daily activity. Like the energy flows were always available and flowing 24/7 and it was more just focusing on it. Additionally, that door that I had previously mentioned regarding tracing thoughts was now kind of permanently open. And there was unlimited energy and potential behind that doorway.

This led to a phase of sort of conducting experiments of blending the conscious thought (intent) with the energy. Sort of trying to do things to prove to myself that I was not crazy. But also amazingly to me, after successfully conducting those experiments I quickly lost interest in doing them. Kind of like for me it was about going deeper and satisfying my curiousity, rather than and specific goal.


More later...

Quote:
Happy New Year to All! :)


With the shifts I had been experiencing over the years, I had been reaching out to most self proclaimed enlightened teachers to try to get a better understanding of my experiences. In most cases I found it to be largely unhelpful. Like the earlier books on Kundalini, there did not seem to be much of a fit.

But, over all of the years the internet and the number of websites had grown dramatically. So searching through a lot of them, I found a few that seemed to describe things similar to what I had been experiencing. In particular, I found the forums a great place to learn various tradition's terminology for what I had been experiencing. After some deep discussions at one of the forums focused on specific practices, I found that their leadership was having a retreat in a city near one of my upcoming business trips. Also, two of the teachers of the retreat claimed to be enlightened, so I thought this would be a great opportunity to see what I could notice or sense with them. Given my schedule constraints, the leaders were very gracious and envited me to a pre-retreat dinner at one of their homes. I went to dinner, and while everyone was very nice, I came away a little disappointed. While I didn't really have a chance to talk with everyone, I didn't sense much and most of the conversation seemed to be centered around various drugs that people used as part of their spiritual process (something I had never done).

About two weeks after I got home, I got an email from one of the group's leaders (that I had not been able to spend time with) saying that I had been "appearing" in her meditation sessions for the last couple of days and wondered if I knew what I was doing. My first thought was that she was imagining things, but since she was supposedly "enlightened", I decided to discuss it with her and play around with some of her experiments. She said that she could see me very clearly in her presence, and after some experiments, she said with my conscious focus the effect became even more powerful. After some practice, she said she could even sort of physically feel me too. For me, I could see nothing (later learned that I was sort of astrally blind) , and even though I countinued with the experiments, because she seemed to be able to text me knowing I had touched her whenever it happened. It was really weird. Then about three weeks into the experiments, she had me touch her stomach and I felt a huge energy backwash from it. It was crazy for me, because this was the first time I had ever felt another person's energy. I could immediately feel the difference from my own. I asked her if there was anything new or different today given our weeks of failure with me seeing anything, and she told me that her monthly period had just started that day... :)

The conscious mental acceptance that I could actually remotely connect with other people hundreds of miles away caused a huge energy explosion in my mind that night.



More later...

Quote:
After that first conscious connection, I started discussing it at some of the forums and found a few members who were willing to conduct experiments on remote energy connections with me. These experiments would first consist of sending and feeling energy (or not), both in things like chat, and for more energy sensitive people and random moments. Then later we expanded the group and started trying dream connecting with a shared visual environment. We quickly found that simpler was better than more complex mental images. As an example, if you tried to do something like hanging out talking at a beach, only more advanced spiritual types would get anything. But, if everyone just focused on a simpler intent of connecting and "water", we would get significantly more success. Rather than force an image on their subconscious, it would work better to share energy and let everyone translate the group energy into their own subconscious imagery.

We also quickly learned that it was more effective if someone was a leader and sort of "created the mental space" for the meet up. These night connections became fun and pretty popular, with the group participating all increasingly growing their energy flows. But, people being people, such group experiments became a little complicated as some participants started focusing more of your energy on specific individuals... :)

Some other early experiments included connecting completely disparate to time. I found that it was possible to sort of leave and energy connection "blob" like a stored mail for someone. Then they could pick it up when they were free to do it. This was very helpful in geographically expanding the group.

More later...

I think this is more than enough for today.
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  #248  
Old 29-11-2017, 07:20 PM
blossomingtree blossomingtree is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
Of course you must also be aware of the adage "If you see Buddha on the highway, kill him". It is our concepts which keep us mired in the illusion and we need to transcend the personal to attain the impersonal. Then we are truly free to adopt the personal aspect once more, within the full existential awareness of its intransigent nature.

For example, some on here, those neo-advatins who profess the teachings of Ramana Maharishi, only take from that the juice of his teachings, and not the entire background or story behind them and thus, misinterpretations and misrepresentations occur.

I (if there is any such thing), go the other way and apply the philosophy of Ramakrishna Paramahamsa who was a great devotee of the Goddess, Kali.

Goddess Kali even appeared to him and you know what he said? "no, I don't want you...even though I love you...I want to obtain Brahman...I want to know the truth" however, because his love for Kali was so great, he couldn't get beyond that stage...so, you know what happened? his guru gave him a sword and said to Ramakrishna "next time Kali appears, run her through...don't even hesitate for a split second" and so, following his guru's advice, Ramakrishna did just that...attained Brahman on the spot...then went back to worshiping Goddess Kali again, but this time, it was different, even though nothing had changed from before. He had gone from Bhakti to Parabhakti.

"First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is".

The same happened with myself and Lord Shiva. I didn't want to 'merge' with Shiva or 'become Shiva' because I loved Him too much for that. I achieved Savikalpa Samadhi, but I was stuck...I could not break the Rudra Granthi knot over my third-eye to go all the way there...then I had a vision, like Ramakrishna did and Lord Shiva appeared to me and said "how much do you love me? how much do you trust me?...nothing will change and yet, everything will" and I could only reply "I love and trust you with every fibre of my existence, my Lord" and then He said "well, let it go...let everything go...even that love and trust you have for me"...It was the hardest thing I have EVER had to do in my life...but it was as if Lord Shiva gave me no choice and so, I did...then I realised the formless beyond the form which gave rise to all form...there was no sense of self, no room, no surroundings, no vision of Shiva...just an indescribable feeling that I wasn't feeling...however after that all happened, I went back to worshiping Lord Shiva as if nothing had even changed...and yet, He was right because everything had.

Dear sweet Shivani Devi

We have all had our experiences so I can only say many blessings and truth to you in your path.

BT
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  #249  
Old 30-11-2017, 10:25 PM
sentient sentient is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
Seeing is a natural progression but remember that all such seeing is a local mind translation of the light. Beyond seeing is being.
Well, ok, true; - any person who is a bit psychic or clairvoyant without any realizations of, or awakenings into “Oneness” can see/feel energy-fields/auras.

Yet, (and perhaps because I don’t really know what I am talking about here) to me it seems that the same principle still holds. “A center and circumference”, which takes me back to my own belief system about the Worldpole (which of course to my mind explains everything ) and which to my mind map – can be likened to a Mandala set-up:
Quote:
The Tibetan word for mandala is "kyilkor," which means "center and fringe." Therefore we're talking about a circle, a center and circumference, which establishes a complete world. At the center of the mandala is always a central deity. This deity is the buddha principle, i.e., it stands for nothing, the emptiness that pervades the mandala. It says, in effect, nothing is at the center, and this then is the central gateway into the absolute buddha mind.
Jonesboy:
Quote:
Seeing and feeling the tree is much different than being the tree... but still a huge step and congrats!

Right.
At the top of the Worldpole sits the Eagle (Thunderbird) and if one doesn’t talk about sudden awakening, but more in terms of ascension (the non-dual Worldpole) then it is as if one goes through the Eye of the Eagle.
It is a bit like a "wormhole", a tunnel or a portal or a gate where the Sound/Light energy "guides you to a new level” where the whole manifested world is now “singing” - radiating and luminous. And you are that luminosity as well as is every atom in a blade of grass. No gap between the observer and the observed. Direct inner knowing, but “seeing” is there too, and “seeing” I suppose meaning self-cognizant luminosity here.

Yet, it still feels like there is a center and circumference there at the heart of it all as well. Be it now the voidless void (?)

Quote:
If you are up for an experiment please let me know :)

Thank you for the invitation, but I think I have at times experimented more than I can properly digest.
It seems proper digestion is hugely important.
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  #250  
Old 05-12-2017, 07:15 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Yeah, about feeling the energy and essence of your whole lineage personified...

I actually felt it today, after I just totally opened up and let all the cats out of the bag.

It is an essence instilled within, like a kind of 'spiritual DNA' and it hit me like a sledge hammer about half an hour ago!

Swami Krishnananda taught me Advaita Vedanta.
Swami Satyananda taught me Tantra and Hatha Yoga.
Swami Chidananda taught me perseverance and steadfastness.
...and of course, Swami Sivananda taught me Bhakti Yoga and love.

I'm the essence instilled....the culmination of them all!

...and it all started when, at 14, I wanted to love and worship Lord Shiva after His darshan during Thaipusam, then I found, under my hotel room bed, a book..."Lord Siva and his Worship" - Swami Sivananda...my path/course had already been set!
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