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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Spirituality

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  #1  
Old 29-08-2019, 09:16 AM
Siemens Siemens is offline
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Only three Theories explain the Relation between our Soul and Matter

Many asked: Is there a soul? If yes, what is its nature and how does it relate to our material world? And what is matter?
Only three theories give possible answers to these questions:

(A) There is no soul and all that is is matter (classic atheism).
(B) A supernatural soul hallucinates the material world and the material world does not really exist, i.e. in form of a substance (visualization theory).
(C) A supernatural soul connects with the material world whereby soul and matter were two different forms of substance (dualism).

These three theories give answers to the nature of our soul, matter, and the relationship between.
The three theories are mutually exclusive, each one rules out the other two. Furthermore one of the three is necessarily true.
All religions and theories that explain the universe are just variations, e.g. Christianity = dualism C. There are no further possibilities.


2 Questions:

1) A, B, and C are not all equally likely. So, how high do you estimate the likelihood of each of them, and why? In sum you have to get 100%.
My own guess:
A ~ 0
B ~ 70%
C ~ 30%

2) In the case of C and B: How are they realized technically?
How does the soul connect to matter in theory C, and where does soul-enwraping matter come from?
How does visualization work in theory B - and if matter is an visualization, is the soul a computer?



(Terminology: With soul I refere to the thing outlasts our physical body.)

Last edited by Siemens : 29-08-2019 at 10:39 AM.
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  #2  
Old 29-08-2019, 10:40 AM
Siemens Siemens is offline
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The reason why I think B (visualization) is more likely than C (dualism) is because of its simplicity. In theory C (dualism) you have to postulate two different kinds of substance: soul-substance and matter-substance. In B you need only one kind of substance that explains everything: The substance or energy that our soul consists of.
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  #3  
Old 29-08-2019, 11:19 AM
Jyotir Jyotir is offline
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Quote:
There are no further possibilities.
D) All reality and existence is consciousness.

Since all-consciousness is all-power...
Soul, matter, or anything else is then simply a particular status, poise, or projection of consciousness-force within the All, whether static or dynamic.

To call matter a "substance" is imposing a material construct or paradigm on the larger scheme, and why then "connection between" becomes result and necessity of that reasoning.

Matter is really a very limited consciousness, a conditional ignorance of what is native to the soul-consciousness that is infinitely more aware and has free access to a comprehensively greater reality within that awareness. But they both originate in and are the same in essence. This is not "dualism", because there is in fact, no "connection" - they are One. The soul is therefore not "supernatural", but rather simply extraordinarily Natural.

When our instrumental consciousness ascends or surrenders to that of the soul, we become that which it inalienably and eternally is.
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  #4  
Old 29-08-2019, 11:33 AM
Emm Emm is offline
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I would agree with Jyotir's D. 100%
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  #5  
Old 29-08-2019, 01:11 PM
Siemens Siemens is offline
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Okay, I admit there are some errors on my premise. But there isn’t much difference between A und D. I should have written:

A) Our consciousness is created by or identical with matter - independently, where matter comes from.
(As an explanation for the relation between our consciousness and matter.)





Quote:
Originally Posted by Emm
I would agree with Jyotir's D. 100%
So you are 100% sure that it is D. And you KNOW that A, B, or C are definitely not the case?

How can you be so sure?
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  #6  
Old 29-08-2019, 06:29 PM
inavalan inavalan is offline
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I believe that the relation between me-here-now and the soul / essence / higher-self / whatever incarnated as me-here-now, is a similar relation with that between me-in-my-dreams and me-here-now.

So, it may be close to your B, without any conclusion about the material world existing, because when we dream, that dream-world is a material world for us-in-our-dreams.
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Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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  #7  
Old 29-08-2019, 08:15 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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Location: Golden Bay, New Zealand
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A simple theory is that the Absolute manifests as Purusha (Spirit) and Prakriti (Matter). In this instance, Matter is not necessarily physical, it is more primordial substance. Both Spirit and Matter are limitless. Spirit expresses Will; Matter expresses Intelligence.

Consciousness arises from the combination of Spirit and Matter. Spirit and Matter being everywhere, Consciousness is also everywhere.

As individuals, we reflect this, so we are Beings of Spirit expressing through Matter via the mechanism of Consciousness or the individual Soul.

There are cycles of devolution and evolution. Devolution is the downward arc of the cycle where Consciousness descends into the material aspect, evolution is the upward arc of the cycle where Consciousness ascends to identification with Being.

Peace.
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  #8  
Old 29-08-2019, 09:35 PM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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Soul has so many definitions I would say it is undefinable or possibly does not exist.

Matter is a different story. Much agreement what matter is.
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  #9  
Old 30-08-2019, 01:27 PM
EdmundJohnstone EdmundJohnstone is offline
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You cannot prove wrong that someone thinks something.

So where does the brain stand in here? What about those people with Alzheimer's, or that were left unconscious in a fight. What happened to them? They got their memories lost as the brain shrank or got damaged, so someone would say that this is the evidence for A, that we are our brains, that are like computers and when they die that's the end, on top of the fact that nobody came from the Dead for long enough to confirm that something is out there, like the supernatural soul that stores memories.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siemens
Many asked: Is there a soul? If yes, what is its nature and how does it relate to our material world? And what is matter?
Only three theories give possible answers to these questions:

(A) There is no soul and all that is is matter (classic atheism).
(B) A supernatural soul hallucinates the material world and the material world does not really exist, i.e. in form of a substance (visualization theory).
(C) A supernatural soul connects with the material world whereby soul and matter were two different forms of substance (dualism).

These three theories give answers to the nature of our soul, matter, and the relationship between.
The three theories are mutually exclusive, each one rules out the other two. Furthermore one of the three is necessarily true.
All religions and theories that explain the universe are just variations, e.g. Christianity = dualism C. There are no further possibilities.


2 Questions:

1) A, B, and C are not all equally likely. So, how high do you estimate the likelihood of each of them, and why? In sum you have to get 100%.
My own guess:
A ~ 0
B ~ 70%
C ~ 30%

2) In the case of C and B: How are they realized technically?
How does the soul connect to matter in theory C, and where does soul-enwraping matter come from?
How does visualization work in theory B - and if matter is an visualization, is the soul a computer?



(Terminology: With soul I refere to the thing outlasts our physical body.)

Last edited by EdmundJohnstone : 30-08-2019 at 05:08 PM.
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  #10  
Old 31-08-2019, 08:21 AM
Siemens Siemens is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 178
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by inavalan
I believe that the relation between me-here-now and the soul / essence / higher-self / whatever incarnated as me-here-now, is a similar relation with that between me-in-my-dreams and me-here-now.
This is how I see it too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by inavalan
So, it may be close to your B, without any conclusion about the material world existing, because when we dream, that dream-world is a material world for us-in-our-dreams.
What do you mean with “without any conclusion”? Isn’t the conceptualization of the material world as a dream-world and therefore an virtual world already a conclusion?
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