God did not quite say his name was I AM.

[django]

Originally Posted by sky123

You stick to your Fairy Tales and I with my Fanciful Thinking and we are both happy.

St Seraphim lived quite recently, in the eighteenth century, there is a lot recorded about his 'miracles'. If the Russians were prone to fairy tales there would be a lot more stories like his, but there are no others like him that I've come across. Why stop at one if you can just make them up?

[django]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

I do agree that Jesus was different and to me he turned the Wheel much like the Buddha did.

The concept of Jesus as a middle man goes completely against what Jesus taught. Did Jesus not say that he was one with the Father? Where is the middle in that?

From the bible:
John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

1Timothy 2.5 “For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”

This idea that the way is via Jesus can seem irrelevant and unnecessary, I used to think so too. When I was in complete darkness without any means to create light, it very soon becomes useless to keep trying on my own, and very easy to say 'Jesus please give me light'. When light actually started to grow immediately after, how can I ignore that Jesus was the apparent cause of this light? Thus I am a Christian.

It might be easier for people who are in the dark, or in deep trouble, to accept Jesus as the way, because they know very well that they aren't doing so well on their own.

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Also, do you know a lot of people who experience the light and are taken into God's presence?

No, not many at all, it is rare. It seems St Seraphim was very conversant with God, he's the best example I can think of:

"Father," answered Motovilov, "how can I see the grace of the Holy Spirit? How can I know if He is with me or not?"

St. Seraphim began to give him examples from the lives of the saints and apostles, but Motovilov still did not understand. The elder then firmly took him by the shoulder and said to him, "We are both now, my dear fellow, in the Holy Spirit." It was as if Motovilov's eyes had been opened, for he saw that the face of the elder was brighter than the sun. In his heart Motovilov felt joy and peace, in his body a warmth as if it were summer, and a fragrance began to spread around them. Motovilov was terrified by the unusual change, but especially by the fact that the face of the starets shone like the sun. But St. Seraphim said to him, "Do not fear, dear fellow. You would not even be able to see me if you yourself were not in the fullness of the Holy Spirit. Thank the Lord for His mercy toward us."

Thus Motovilov understood, in mind and heart, what the descent of the Holy Spirit and His transfiguration of a person meant.
https://orthodoxwiki.org/Seraphim_of_Sarov

[sky]

Originally Posted by django

St Seraphim lived quite recently, in the eighteenth century, there is a lot recorded about his 'miracles'. If the Russians were prone to fairy tales there would be a lot more stories like his, but there are no others like him that I've come across. Why stop at one if you can just make them up?

Your beliefs seem to be based on the written words of others, wait till you experience the wonders yourself, you will throw away the ' Books ' and

[Honza]

Originally Posted by sky123

Your beliefs seem to be based on the written words of others, wait till you experience the wonders yourself, you will throw away the ' Books ' and

Others and what they have written is part and parcel of the whole 'self' thing. What you have just written is only the 'written words of others' to me...yet I listen.

Why throw away the collective wisdom of the spiritual hive mind? People need to go carefully because there is a lot of danger and falseness about.

You have quite casually declared yourself God. Which is fine. But I think one day you will find that your answer is just as flawed as a Christian answer. We are all in this collective reality together. Some ask Jesus for protection and grace. You don't and prefer to go alone.

I often need protection. I often feel scared. I often need the love of others. I am not an isolated rock. Seeking answers from others experience is not as foolish as it seems.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Honza

Others and what they have written is part and parcel of the whole 'self' thing. What you have just written is only the 'written words of others' to me...yet I listen.

Why throw away the collective wisdom of the spiritual hive mind? People need to go carefully because there is a lot of danger and falseness about.

You have quite casually declared yourself God. Which is fine. But I think one day you will find that your answer is just as flawed as a Christian answer. We are all in this collective reality together. Some ask Jesus for protection and grace. You don't and prefer to go alone.

I often need protection. I often feel scared. I often need the love of others. I am not an isolated rock. Seeking answers from others experience is not as foolish as it seems.

Whatever gives you " Comfort " then use it, but one day some of us realize the answers are within... rather than without.
As Buddha so wisely said,
" When you reach the other shore throw away your raft."

The experiences of others are theirs not yours, you can use them as a guide to help you understand that it is possible to get to the same place as all the great Masters
but you need to be there yourself as a participant not a observer.

I personally want to taste it, not imagine what it tastes like...


" I often feel scared "
I have realised that the only thing I should be scared about is my own mind.

[django]

Originally Posted by sky123

Your beliefs seem to be based on the written words of others, wait till you experience the wonders yourself, you will throw away the ' Books ' and

In a previous post to you http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...1&postcount=47 I wrote "Surrendering to Jesus as the "middle-man" is only required when you have found the dark emptiness within, and you are finally desperate enough for light in that dark empty place."

This is my personal experience, light shone in the complete darkness, and in a sense I believe the Holy Spirit is now working within me, but I still have a way to go, and for now St Seraphim's experience of God is far greater and more inspiring than mine.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by django

From the bible:
John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

1Timothy 2.5 “For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”

This idea that the way is via Jesus can seem irrelevant and unnecessary, I used to think so too. When I was in complete darkness without any means to create light, it very soon becomes useless to keep trying on my own, and very easy to say 'Jesus please give me light'. When light actually started to grow immediately after, how can I ignore that Jesus was the apparent cause of this light? Thus I am a Christian.

It might be easier for people who are in the dark, or in deep trouble, to accept Jesus as the way, because they know very well that they aren't doing so well on their own.

I think a broader view on the quote you gave may give it some context.

John 14:1-14 King James Version (KJV)

14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Now this next part is very interesting.

If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Non dual, Jesus in One with the Father, You can be One with the Father and even more interesting.. another will come.

How many times did Jesus say it was in you?

Yet everyone wants to look in the sky or the sea or thinks it is only after they die.

Jesus is one with the father, it is his way of saying they are not separate, so if he is one, then yes he is the way to the father because he is the father standing before them.

[Honza]

Originally Posted by sky123

Whatever gives you " Comfort " then use it, but one day some of us realize the answers are within... rather than without.
As Buddha so wisely said,
" When you reach the other shore throw away your raft."

The experiences of others are theirs not yours, you can use them as a guide to help you understand that it is possible to get to the same place as all the great Masters
but you need to be there yourself as a participant not a observer.

I personally want to taste it, not imagine what it tastes like...


" I often feel scared "
I have realised that the only thing I should be scared about is my own mind.

So why on earth do you visit Spiritual Forums which is full of the opinions of others? It would seem it is a waste of time for you.....

[django]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

I think a broader view on the quote you gave may give it some context.



Now this next part is very interesting.



Non dual, Jesus in One with the Father, You can be One with the Father

Yes it is possible that Jesus and the Father may come to dwell in us, but it will be clear in whom they truly dwell because that person will do the works that Jesus did, and even greater works, it is unmissable.

Anyone who claims that either Jesus or the Father or the Holy Spirit is within them must be able to demonstrate it, or we're back to it just being words with no proof.

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven."

Originally Posted by jonesboy

and even more interesting.. another will come.

How many times did Jesus say it was in you?

Yet everyone wants to look in the sky or the sea or thinks it is only after they die.

Jesus is one with the father, it is his way of saying they are not separate, so if he is one, then yes he is the way to the father because he is the father standing before them.

[sky]

Originally Posted by django

Yes it is possible that Jesus and the Father may come to dwell in us, but it will be clear in whom they truly dwell because that person will do the works that Jesus did, and even greater works, it is unmissable.

Anyone who claims that either Jesus or the Father or the Holy Spirit is within them must be able to demonstrate it, or we're back to it just being words with no proof.

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven."

" Anyone who claims that either Jesus or the Father or the Holy Spirit is within them must be able to demonstrate it,"

How do you personally see how they would demonstrate it. What signs would you be looking for ?