Belief and explanation.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by weareunity

Hello all.

Wondering to what extent it is reasonable to suggest that beliefs concerning existence are a product of the need to have an explanation ?

Your question reminds another discussion, about reincarnation.

A poster was sharing how hard his life is, for being bipolar. Another poster replied that, before birth, souls choose hard lives to learn certain lessons. Translation: don't complain because it's what you wanted! Or: bear it because it's for your own good!

There are many other examples of explanations, rooted in beliefs, that seem to aim to sooth pain, be it physical, or emotional.

While such explanations may have a positive impact on the morale of the person in pain, quite often they are promoted in order to advance other interests: opium for the masses (obviously, opposing entities demagogically accuse each other of this sin, of which both sides are as guilty).

Then, there are those well meaning people that parrot explanations they've heard / read, without realizing that sometimes they re-victimize the poor victims of others' interests. Ignorance is an explanation, but not an excuse.

weareunity, Pete, it's my pleasure and good fortune to meet you here.
Thanks for the tips,

JL

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by inavalan

Your question reminds another discussion, about reincarnation.

A poster was sharing how hard his life is, for being bipolar. Another poster replied that, before birth, souls choose hard lives to learn certain lessons. Translation: don't complain because it's what you wanted! Or: bear it because it's for your own good!

There are many other examples of explanations, rooted in beliefs, that seem to aim to sooth pain, be it physical, or emotional.

While such explanations may have a positive impact on the morale of the person in pain, quite often they are promoted in order to advance other interests: opium for the masses (obviously, opposing entities demagogically accuse each other of this sin, of which both sides are as guilty).

Then, there are those well meaning people that parrot explanations they've heard / read, without realizing that sometimes they re-victimize the poor victims of others' interests. Ignorance is an explanation, but not an excuse.

Is anyone really a victim? Being a victim suggests that someone is at the mercy of more powerful people or random circumstances. The realisation that we might have chosen these particular people or circumstances for whatever reason is actually self-empowering. We are responsible, and how we respond is our own choice.

Accepting our own responsibility is taking control of our lives. Denying this responsibility maintains our identification with being a victim.

Peace

Originally Posted by iamthat

Is anyone really a victim? Being a victim suggests that someone is at the mercy of more powerful people or random circumstances. The realisation that we might have chosen these particular people or circumstances for whatever reason is actually self-empowering. We are responsible, and how we respond is our own choice.

Accepting our own responsibility is taking control of our lives. Denying this responsibility maintains our identification with being a victim.

Peace

I think that there are victims, iamthat. Children come to mind, as do women.

JL

[weareunity]

Hello Iamthat.

In your post 13, I am sensing something familiar in the perspective you put forward, for I am reminded of an altered state which I seem to recall being associated with "Stockholm Syndrome".

Because I was not sure if this was the case I have looked it up on Wikipedia, and based on what I have just read, there really do seem to be similarities--Imo.

What do you think?

petex

[happy soul]

Janielee, I've noticed your frequent kind words and I commend your goodness and willingness to love.

Inavalan, your negative attitude and judgments are really annoying. You're hurting yourself worse than anyone else. You need to rethink your values and your path. With your lack of love it'll be forever and a day before you find enlightenment.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by weareunity

Hello Iamthat.

In your post 13, I am sensing something familiar in the perspective you put forward, for I am reminded of an altered state which I seem to recall being associated with "Stockholm Syndrome".

Because I was not sure if this was the case I have looked it up on Wikipedia, and based on what I have just read, there really do seem to be similarities--Imo.

What do you think?

petex

Hi petex

Can you clarify what similarities you see?

For those unfamiliar with Stockholm Syndrome, from Wikipedia:

Stockholm syndrome is a condition that causes hostages to develop a psychological alliance with their captors as a survival strategy during captivity. These alliances, resulting from a bond formed between captor and captives during intimate time spent together, are generally considered irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims.

Peace.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by janielee

I think that there are victims, iamthat. Children come to mind, as do women.

JL

This comes back to the controversial issue of does the Soul choose to incarnate in difficult circumstances, such as a childhood of being abused, in order to learn particular lessons?

A child who is abused in whatever way may grow up to become an abuser, thus perpetuating the pattern of behaviour. We may condemn such behaviour, but perhaps we should also view such people with compassion. They are repeating what they have learned because they know no better.

Or such a child may go through life feeling that they are the victim of others. As adults they may find themselves in relationships or work situations where the pattern of abuse is repeated. Maybe their challenge is to rise above identification with victimhood and begin to take charge of their relationships and their lives.

And we cannot ignore the possibility that a child suffering abuse is reaping their own karma - who knows what they might have done previously, and maybe they need to experience for themselves how it feels to be abused.

A child who is abused may in later life rise above their own experiences and use this experience to help others in a similar situation. They know how it feels because they have been through it themselves.

This is a controversial subject and I do not have the answers. But sometimes we have to step back and try to understand things in a greater context.

Peace.

[weareunity]

Hello Iamthat.

I will do my honest best to clarify how I have understood your post 13--specifically " The realisation that we might have chosen these particular people or circumstances for whatever reason is actually self empowering"--as Imo having similarities to an altered state associated with Stockholm Syndrome. I do so as observer-- not accuser.

In suggesting that a subject "chooses" person/s who cause suffering gives me the impression that the subject has a desire to be in relationship with such person/s. The impression that the subject has no objection to being subjected to such suffering because somehow it is for their own good, and indeed, that they should be grateful.

This seems to me to be a relationship within which the subject closely identifies with the perpetrator of the suffering.

So in this respect I see a similarity between the perspective you suggest and Stockholm Syndrome.

Reading the Wikipedia entry beyond the description you quote, you will come to a reference to "Secondary Victimisation", whereby--as I understand it--the subject suffers further because they become convinced that the suffering they endure is their fault. This seems to me to be what your statement which I quoted earlier in this reply also also seems to indicate since the subject has "chosen these particular people".

Now, it may be that the above is not how you intended your post13 to be understood--but it is how I have understood it.

Lastly, and not now citing what I see as similarities. It is not clear to me that "The realisation that we might have chosen these particular people or circumstances for whatever reason" is actually self empowering.

Whilst I can see that it might be interpreted as such, there is-imo- a strong possibility that what is actually being experienced is a powerful release from an untenable situation, a release made possible by an escape into self delusion. A process which is apparently not always reversible.

petex

[iamthat]

Hi petex

Thanks for your clarification.

When I suggest that we might have chosen particular people or circumstances for a particular experience, I mean "we" as Souls prior to incarnation.

I am not suggesting that this is a personality choice from which we seek some kind of release, as in the Stockholm Syndrome.

I do not consider the assumption of responsibility as meaning that our suffering is our own fault because we are somehow "bad" people. Instead I suggest that on a deeper level each one of us is responsible for creating whatever manifests in our lives.

If we accept that we are responsible for creating our own problems, then that becomes self-empowering because we realise that we are then also responsible for creating our own solutions. We do not have to depend on anyone else to fix our lives. It is up to us.

I hope this clarifies my meaning.

Peace.