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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Complementary Therapies & Traditional Medicine > Tai Chi & Chi Gong

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  #11  
Old 28-02-2019, 02:27 PM
Che Lazou Che Lazou is offline
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Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 139
 
I have found that closing down spontaneous movement is one of the hardest things in the world when one is too open.

I think practicing closing down in spontaneous qi gong is very important, and I really haven't done enough of it for it to come naturally.

I found spontaneous qi gong to be very traumatic for me in conjunction with my psychosis as I would find myself entangled with spontaneous motion of people around me in the street and start to feel like I was being controlled or oppressed.

Spontaneous qi gong is usually recommended for health reasons, releasing blockages in your meridians.

It becomes traumatic when you have a martial attitude towards it, so developing an attitude of love is perhaps the best thing you can do to close down.

Doctoring and fighting are two sides of the same coin, but there is a third choice to simply be.

However other people may be in either one of the two states of doctoring and fighting in relation to you so it is not enough to simply ignore the interaction. One has to love as well.

Thank you.
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  #12  
Old 01-03-2019, 12:45 PM
Che Lazou Che Lazou is offline
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Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 139
 
So I actually gave up on spontaneous movement qi gong because of paranoia about entanglement with other people and responding to their qi.

I know that love can be a shield as I mentioned in the previous post, and I know a simple closing down excercise, buut neither of these are things that I'm particularly good at when the time comes, nor can I do them particularly naturally.

I'd like to know any tips on this as well if anyone is good at it.

Thank you
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  #13  
Old 01-03-2019, 12:59 PM
sky123 sky123 is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,980
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Che Lazou
So I actually gave up on spontaneous movement qi gong because of paranoia about entanglement with other people and responding to their qi.

I know that love can be a shield as I mentioned in the previous post, and I know a simple closing down excercise, buut neither of these are things that I'm particularly good at when the time comes, nor can I do them particularly naturally.

I'd like to know any tips on this as well if anyone is good at it.

Thank you




' entanglement with other people and responding to their chi '


Never heard of this happening.
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  #14  
Old 01-03-2019, 04:11 PM
Che Lazou Che Lazou is offline
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Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 139
 
Spontaneous movement qi gong makes use of various kinds of qi whose distinctions depend on the idiosyncrasies of the particular school which practices it.

My own school, founded by Dr. Shen Hongxun, who created a system of spontaneous movement qi gong he called taijiwuxigong, drew the distinction between bin qi which is the negative or pathogenic qi which is released during spontaneous movement and other positive forms of qi.

Dr. Shen also created, or rediscovered, a system of healing which he called Buqi which is a bit like Reiki, except the healer draws out the bin qi as well as projecting positive qi into the patient. Buqi practitioners must also learn to be sensititve to bin qi and other forms of qi in order to make accurate diagnoses.

Besides healing, Dr. Shen also practiced martial arts, and he taught the use of empty force t'ai ji which is similar to spontaneous movement, but here the master directs the use of qi to control his or her oponent without directly touching them.

My problems started when I tried to understand the distinction between facilitating taijiwuxigong and fighting using empty force t'ai ji. In both cases the master plays a role. When practicing taijiwuxigong or spontaneous movement qi gong, the master facilitates the sponataneous movement, i.e. creates the conditions whereby spontaneous movement can occur. When practicing empty force t'ai ji, the master directs the movement of his or her oponent.

In trying to understand the difference I started to experience examples of entanglement, whereby I was responding to the qi of complete strangers, through opening up. They themselves were not conscious of it, but I could observe the connection, and I couldn't control either myself or them, merely respond.

In essence it was like a feedback loop whereby all my movements amplified the connection.

The other person or people were also moving in relation to my own qi, but not at my direction as I had no control.

Such sensations of feeling helpless physically are a common first order symptom of schizophrenia known as motor or kinesthetic passivity whereby the sufferer attributes the ownership of their motion to be coming from somewhere other than themselves.

Placing the ownership for me is hard, whether it be internal or external, and if external where in the external world. The school I attended placed the source of spontaneous movement in the earth and advised projecting it up to heaven, in keeping with the Yi Jing hexagram T'ai which represents the perfect balance of life.

However when I was practicing taijiwuxigong, I immediately thought to place the source in the teacher/master, and tried to resist it.

Later I was able to place it in myself, though without feeling much connection to the earth.

Placing it in strangers is a result of being too open to them whilst not having a loving attitude in one's projections of energy, i.e. feeling paranoid or resentful, or trying to be controling.

Of course if one is a martial master then one can use empty force as a stick to move the oponent, but as with all sticks the oponent has the choice in how they respond within the limits of their capabilities or ego.

Anyway, I am steering clear of such practices for the time being as my condition of schizophrenia still means that i get too paranoid, resentful and controling in my relationship with other people when I engage.

Closing down so I am not so open is one thing I would need to master if I did practice it regularly. Not practicing it means that I am more likely to be in a closed state naturally, than if I practice it and open up on a regular basis.

Projecting and producing love is another thing that I need to master if I am to cure myself of paranoid and resentful thoughts of controling other people, which also means letting go of attachments to being judgmental.

I'd welcome any suggestions of practices I could do to enhance these things without opening up as in spontaneous movement qi gong.

Thank you.
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  #15  
Old 01-03-2019, 04:36 PM
sky123 sky123 is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,980
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Che Lazou
Spontaneous movement qi gong makes use of various kinds of qi whose distinctions depend on the idiosyncrasies of the particular school which practices it.

My own school, founded by Dr. Shen Hongxun, who created a system of spontaneous movement qi gong he called taijiwuxigong, drew the distinction between bin qi which is the negative or pathogenic qi which is released during spontaneous movement and other positive forms of qi.

Dr. Shen also created, or rediscovered, a system of healing which he called Buqi which is a bit like Reiki, except the healer draws out the bin qi as well as projecting positive qi into the patient. Buqi practitioners must also learn to be sensititve to bin qi and other forms of qi in order to make accurate diagnoses.

Besides healing, Dr. Shen also practiced martial arts, and he taught the use of empty force t'ai ji which is similar to spontaneous movement, but here the master directs the use of qi to control his or her oponent without directly touching them.

My problems started when I tried to understand the distinction between facilitating taijiwuxigong and fighting using empty force t'ai ji. In both cases the master plays a role. When practicing taijiwuxigong or spontaneous movement qi gong, the master facilitates the sponataneous movement, i.e. creates the conditions whereby spontaneous movement can occur. When practicing empty force t'ai ji, the master directs the movement of his or her oponent.

In trying to understand the difference I started to experience examples of entanglement, whereby I was responding to the qi of complete strangers, through opening up. They themselves were not conscious of it, but I could observe the connection, and I couldn't control either myself or them, merely respond.

In essence it was like a feedback loop whereby all my movements amplified the connection.

The other person or people were also moving in relation to my own qi, but not at my direction as I had no control.

Such sensations of feeling helpless physically are a common first order symptom of schizophrenia known as motor or kinesthetic passivity whereby the sufferer attributes the ownership of their motion to be coming from somewhere other than themselves.

Placing the ownership for me is hard, whether it be internal or external, and if external where in the external world. The school I attended placed the source of spontaneous movement in the earth and advised projecting it up to heaven, in keeping with the Yi Jing hexagram T'ai which represents the perfect balance of life.

However when I was practicing taijiwuxigong, I immediately thought to place the source in the teacher/master, and tried to resist it.

Later I was able to place it in myself, though without feeling much connection to the earth.

Placing it in strangers is a result of being too open to them whilst not having a loving attitude in one's projections of energy, i.e. feeling paranoid or resentful, or trying to be controling.

Of course if one is a martial master then one can use empty force as a stick to move the oponent, but as with all sticks the oponent has the choice in how they respond within the limits of their capabilities or ego.

Anyway, I am steering clear of such practices for the time being as my condition of schizophrenia still means that i get too paranoid, resentful and controling in my relationship with other people when I engage.

Closing down so I am not so open is one thing I would need to master if I did practice it regularly. Not practicing it means that I am more likely to be in a closed state naturally, than if I practice it and open up on a regular basis.

Projecting and producing love is another thing that I need to master if I am to cure myself of paranoid and resentful thoughts of controling other people, which also means letting go of attachments to being judgmental.

I'd welcome any suggestions of practices I could do to enhance these things without opening up as in spontaneous movement qi gong.

Thank you.



I haver heard of your Teacher or the Form you practice so can't add anything to your Post. I presume it's a modern Form, I practice an Ancient Form...
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  #16  
Old 01-03-2019, 05:26 PM
Che Lazou Che Lazou is offline
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Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 139
 
Quote:
I haver heard of your Teacher or the Form you practice so can't add anything to your Post. I presume it's a modern Form, I practice an Ancient Form...

I don't know the exact origins of the various movements of the forms Dr. Shen taught, he was a researcher and innovator as well as a direct descendent from various lineages. His autobiography can be found here: http://www.shenhongxun.com/biography-01.htm

Spontaneous movement, however, is movement without form, or rather what form there is is dictated by the blockages in the mind and body, and these are manifested in a state of pure (as much as that is possible) observation on the part of the practitioner.

I think your comment is a bit pretentious actually, but I don't mind, I'm sure you're very capable and well versed as well as being a natural.

Thank you.
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  #17  
Old 02-03-2019, 08:26 AM
sky123 sky123 is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,980
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Che Lazou
I don't know the exact origins of the various movements of the forms Dr. Shen taught, he was a researcher and innovator as well as a direct descendent from various lineages. His autobiography can be found here: http://www.shenhongxun.com/biography-01.htm

Spontaneous movement, however, is movement without form, or rather what form there is is dictated by the blockages in the mind and body, and these are manifested in a state of pure (as much as that is possible) observation on the part of the practitioner.

I think your comment is a bit pretentious actually, but I don't mind, I'm sure you're very capable and well versed as well as being a natural.

Thank you.


'I think your comment is a bit pretentious actually, but I don't mind.'


That came from you when you said ( I think ). not from me
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  #18  
Old 02-03-2019, 11:10 AM
Gem Gem is online now
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 18,771
  Gem's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Che Lazou
I don't know the exact origins of the various movements of the forms Dr. Shen taught, he was a researcher and innovator as well as a direct descendent from various lineages. His autobiography can be found here: http://www.shenhongxun.com/biography-01.htm

Spontaneous movement, however, is movement without form, or rather what form there is is dictated by the blockages in the mind and body, and these are manifested in a state of pure (as much as that is possible) observation on the part of the practitioner.

I think your comment is a bit pretentious actually, but I don't mind, I'm sure you're very capable and well versed as well as being a natural.

Thank you.




it is an interesting biography. he seems well learned from an early age and hard practiced life long
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