Spirituality dissconnected from religion.

[7luminaries]

Mickiel...good on you and enjoy the journey.
I never felt a need to belong or conform, but I do respect and understand the desire to connect and to come together to commune spiritually. To pray and worship. I get that and it can be a very positive thing with a lot of good energy.

The structure and dogma bothered me a lot, though. Not the old books but our historic and modern interpretations. We're responsible for today, for ourselves. And just as we discount or drop certain things (slavery or indentured servitude) as anachronistic and dated, we could certainly do the same with anything else we so chose.

That's the crux of the problem IMO...too many do not so choose. LOL. In fact, they actively choose to go against what I feel is truth and justice in Love/Spirit/God. This is true of everyone, but there is a layer of institutional hypocrisy there.

Just as there is a layer of social and personal hypocrisy whenever we do and say and believe and intend negative, harmful, exploitative, and misaligned things but then say we are still good people who mean well.

These assessments and statements (about how we're good and mean well) become meaningless for traditional religion when our institutions lack integrity, just as they become meaningless for us personally when we lack integrity.

You'll quickly see there are both deep mystical truths revealed in our traditional religions (which you may be well aware of), as well as great hypocrisy. This means that 1) they are a source of divine truths and 2) they are also deeply flawed because they are human institutions and cannot escape our hypocrisy and lack of integrity.

The mystical truths are divinely inspired and are universal in their applicability...they belong ultimately to all existence. The hypocrisy we see in our institutions, however, is all on US. It stems based on how we as a society and as individuals have thus far failed to choose wisely, compassionately, and with love and justice. Our institutions simply reflect our collective AND individual lack of spiritual progress, and they are a reflection of it.

We expect our institutions to represent our higher nature, our divinely inspired ideals, our better selves. And yet that means that we individually and collectively must rise to our higher nature, our divinely inspired ideals, and to our better selves.

Then we can guide and direct and interpret (whatever) spiritual teachings in a modern, compassionate, and just way, one that is right-aligned with Spirit and which actively seeks the highest good of all. I.e., one that is right-aligned with authentic love.

In an ideal society, we would each represent and reflect that highest good -- and our spiritual traditions and institutions likewise would do the same. There would be no real difference except for that lovely communal aspect of gathering and worshipping which magnifies the glory (of the love and the energy).

Until that time, it's something to keep in mind lest we vilify institutions needlessly (as some but not all of it is deserved), whilst somehow failing to realise that our institutions simply embody the same hypocrisy that exists individually and collectively within ourselves.

Peace & blessings
7L

[linen53]

I remember when I pulled the first book off the bookshelf that was not sanctioned by "the church". I thought God was going to strike me dead right then and there. It's inevitable: when you are raised in "the church" there is undoubtedly going to be some brainwashing going on. Not intentional. No, no, no! But you learn to accept what others tell you is the truth.

Stepping away from "the church" was very traumatic for me. I didn't find a new teacher, or faith (non christian), I just knew Christianity wasn't for me anymore. It was like outgrowing a pair of shoes. And there was no internet so I was pretty much sailing my own boat, so to speak. But there were books. Lots of books and I read them voraciously. And I put together my own set of beliefs that fit with my vibration which continues to grow and evolve to this day.

I wish you well on your new Path.

[mickiel]

Yes , outgrowing a pair of shoes is a good analogy. I respect "If the shoe fits wear it ", I mean if religion is for you , then fine. I wore those shoes quite awhile. I guess they were good for me at the time ; or were they?

Did they hurt my feet? Or my life?

I guess that is the question which reveals a stark difference between being religious , and now not religious. I am not an Atheist , I am just not into religion any more. Any religion , including Christianity.

Interesting ,my new birth , because its just like a totally new life , a new way of thinking ; has nothing to do with anyone else but me. I had to get away from religion , in order to be free.

So what was I while being inside of religion? Well I was bound.

Its so interesting ; most find their freedom by finding religion.

[mickiel]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Mickiel...good on you and enjoy the journey.
I never felt a need to belong or conform, but I do respect and understand the desire to connect and to come together to commune spiritually. To pray and worship. I get that and it can be a very positive thing with a lot of good energy.

The structure and dogma bothered me a lot, though. Not the old books but our historic and modern interpretations. We're responsible for today, for ourselves. And just as we discount or drop certain things (slavery or indentured servitude) as anachronistic and dated, we could certainly do the same with anything else we so chose.

That's the crux of the problem IMO...too many do not so choose. LOL. In fact, they actively choose to go against what I feel is truth and justice in Love/Spirit/God. This is true of everyone, but there is a layer of institutional hypocrisy there.

Just as there is a layer of social and personal hypocrisy whenever we do and say and believe and intend negative, harmful, exploitative, and misaligned things but then say we are still good people who mean well.

These assessments and statements (about how we're good and mean well) become meaningless for traditional religion when our institutions lack integrity, just as they become meaningless for us personally when we lack integrity.

You'll quickly see there are both deep mystical truths revealed in our traditional religions (which you may be well aware of), as well as great hypocrisy. This means that 1) they are a source of divine truths and 2) they are also deeply flawed because they are human institutions and cannot escape our hypocrisy and lack of integrity.

The mystical truths are divinely inspired and are universal in their applicability...they belong ultimately to all existence. The hypocrisy we see in our institutions, however, is all on US. It stems based on how we as a society and as individuals have thus far failed to choose wisely, compassionately, and with love and justice. Our institutions simply reflect our collective AND individual lack of spiritual progress, and they are a reflection of it.

We expect our institutions to represent our higher nature, our divinely inspired ideals, our better selves. And yet that means that we individually and collectively must rise to our higher nature, our divinely inspired ideals, and to our better selves.

Then we can guide and direct and interpret (whatever) spiritual teachings in a modern, compassionate, and just way, one that is right-aligned with Spirit and which actively seeks the highest good of all. I.e., one that is right-aligned with authentic love.

In an ideal society, we would each represent and reflect that highest good -- and our spiritual traditions and institutions likewise would do the same. There would be no real difference except for that lovely communal aspect of gathering and worshipping which magnifies the glory (of the love and the energy).

Until that time, it's something to keep in mind lest we vilify institutions needlessly (as some but not all of it is deserved), whilst somehow failing to realise that our institutions simply embody the same hypocrisy that exists individually and collectively within ourselves.

Peace & blessings
7L

I am still into God being real, or my understanding of God, I just no longer agree with the religious understanding of God. Its not even food to me what they believe ,I "Throw it up"; it just does not digest within me any more. I can't eat it any more.

I am not into the "Mystical thingy" , I mean to each their own.

I guess I am just content with being in my own understanding ; wow! Am I saying my own world? Never thought I would get to this.

Its like , "Man, did I wake up in another world? " Its Like everything has gone nuts; and does not even know its nuts.

Or am I just gone nuts?

I'm done with the beliefs of society. Not society itself .

[muffin]

Originally Posted by mickiel

Yes , outgrowing a pair of shoes is a good analogy. I respect "If the shoe fits wear it ", I mean if religion is for you , then fine. I wore those shoes quite awhile. I guess they were good for me at the time ; or were they?

Did they hurt my feet? Or my life?

I guess that is the question which reveals a stark difference between being religious , and now not religious. I am not an Atheist , I am just not into religion any more. Any religion , including Christianity.

Interesting ,my new birth , because its just like a totally new life , a new way of thinking ; has nothing to do with anyone else but me. I had to get away from religion , in order to be free.

So what was I while being inside of religion? Well I was bound.

Its so interesting ; most find their freedom by finding religion.

Good afternoon mickiel

"Its so interesting ; most find their freedom by finding religion."

Which, man made or of the heart ?

[mickiel]

Originally Posted by muffin

Good afternoon mickiel

"Its so interesting ; most find their freedom by finding religion."

Which, man made or of the heart ?

The freedom I am referring to is "Freedom from a type of prison." Or something that had you locked up and bound. Religion had me locked into a pattern that was just not for me. Its way of seeing things just became a hinderence for me. Even how they interpret the bible, I could no longer agree with.

Religion is a language I learned but just got tired of speaking.

[muffin]

Originally Posted by mickiel

The freedom I am referring to is "Freedom from a type of prison." Or something that had you locked up and bound. Religion had me locked into a pattern that was just not for me. Its way of seeing things just became a hinderence for me. Even how they interpret the bible, I could no longer agree with.

Religion is a language I learned but just got tired of speaking.

They are one in the same, in both have locks and keys.
Yet the heart will open you up, it has no boundaries in it's teachings, have fun mickiel and enjoy.

[mickiel]

Originally Posted by muffin

They are one in the same, in both have locks and keys.
Yet the heart will open you up, it has no boundaries in it's teachings, have fun mickiel and enjoy.

Well thank you . I learn things from my heart , or my emotional content - if that is what you mean by "Learning from the heart" ; I learn much more from my consciousness . I consider consciousness as ' A spirit inside of humans", most of my learning is derived from that. I don't separate my emotions from that learning ,but often I have to put my emotions aside from some of the things I learn. I don't view the Consciousness and the Emotions as the same , they are most certainly intertwined , but in my understanding they are different. Now that ought to be an interesting thread ," The difference between the heart and the consciousness."

[linen53]

I consider my time in the Christian Church as a time of feeling safe in my infancy. Spiritual infancy, that is. It was a foundation...a springboard to where I am today.

For many years I was bitter at the things they taught me and I swallowed it hook, line and sinker. But I realize now it's an evolution of sorts.

And yes, I do not have any problems with my friends who are christian. It's where they are, and I"m where I am. Period.

[mickiel]

I have a few friends who view Christianity as the beginning of their journey ; they all have left. Interesting ,it may well be a common foundation to an awaiting evolution for some. It was for me.

I think I had to know weakness before I knew strength. I had to learn lies in order to be ready for truth.