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06-03-2015, 12:09 PM
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Master
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: outside the illusion
Posts: 1,493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octopusonpaper
Dressing up or showing off our best features when on a date is manipulation. We use it daily without giving it much thought. What is the definition of the word? To act skilfully to get ones way? We want, we get. Manipulation per se is not a negative word. What determines if it is negative or positive is the motive.
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I don't consder dressing well manipulation. That's putting in effort.
Doing something to get your way when it isn't the others? Yeah manipulation.
I personally don't like it. I had a manipulative mother and father. I don't want anyone doing what they don't want because I willed them or tricked them, or bribed them.
I put in effort to look hot for my husband everyday. 15 years in.
I consider it showing him and myself respect. It's not a motivator or bargaining chip.
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06-03-2015, 12:20 PM
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Master
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: outside the illusion
Posts: 1,493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mickiel
Well one pattern I have seen, is " The cycle", a weird kind of circle that keeps repeating itself. There is the romance, the union, the honeymoon period, then the breakup; then comes the make up, and the cycle begins all over again. Often the men trapped in this pattern, kind of " Get off on the reaction they see in the woman, when they tell her their leaving." The woman goes into a kind of " Begging clinging mode", and he is aroused by that, and reassured as well. A weird type of pacification gets kicked off in his head. Its also a type of control feature , which will actually wreck a relationship, ruin it, just to be able to control it.
Its really a form of abuse.
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We are just friends. But it sounds like our friendship has gone over the last year and a half. Except there's no break up, he just gets mean to the point I think he didlikes me more than likes me.
The 5 years before that were great. Though we were less close.
It's painful and feels abusive. He has some pretty horrific abuse as a kid so I always put it down to a fear of being close to anyone. Either ways it's eroding my self esteme to be regected as a friend for no reason on a regular basis. Like the rug being pulled out from underneath you.
I am going to need to go to a safe distance myself. Sucks!
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06-03-2015, 02:03 PM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Rex, Georgia
Posts: 3,644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGlow
We are just friends. But it sounds like our friendship has gone over the last year and a half. Except there's no break up, he just gets mean to the point I think he didlikes me more than likes me.
The 5 years before that were great. Though we were less close.
It's painful and feels abusive. He has some pretty horrific abuse as a kid so I always put it down to a fear of being close to anyone. Either ways it's eroding my self esteme to be regected as a friend for no reason on a regular basis. Like the rug being pulled out from underneath you.
I am going to need to go to a safe distance myself. Sucks!
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Well there is no need to listen to anyone other than yourself. You said;
The friendship is not what it used to be
Its painful
Its abusive
Its eroding your self esteem
Its constantly rejecting
You don't feel safe
Hello??
Hello! Is there anyone listening to yourself talking; crying out.
I mean I understand being a good understanding friend and all, but my goodness, how about if not for your heart, that you withdraw just for your health? Be a good healthy friend from a distance, and let him drain someonelse who can take it.
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06-03-2015, 02:06 PM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Rex, Georgia
Posts: 3,644
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What can be more predictable, than knowing that someone is going to hurt you, and more draining than knowing you are going to let them do it again?
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06-03-2015, 03:06 PM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Rex, Georgia
Posts: 3,644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octopusonpaper
Dressing up or showing off our best features when on a date is manipulation. We use it daily without giving it much thought. What is the definition of the word? To act skilfully to get ones way? We want, we get. Manipulation per se is not a negative word. What determines if it is negative or positive is the motive.
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I remember reading once, that we look into a mirror for two reasons; to look at ourselves, and then prepare ourselves for others to look at us.
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06-03-2015, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGlow
Why play games why not just say what needs to be said?
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An easy remark/question to put but how do you know what "needs to be said" until you converge on communicative ground with someone with whom you're about to interact? Romance is just one situation in which you meet people for the first time hoping for a particular outcome.
For that, society has developed various conventions over time that allow convergence (or otherwise) to be explored.
Fact is, like it or not, romance is part of the mating game.
I might appreciate a guy's honesty if he came up to me and said "I want a ----" but I'd appreciate it even more if he approached it in a way that told me he wanted to give as much as take - and the semiotics of that are a little more complex!
♀
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06-03-2015, 03:21 PM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Rex, Georgia
Posts: 3,644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGlow
I put in effort to look hot for my husband everyday. 15 years in.
I consider it showing him and myself respect. It's not a motivator or bargaining chip.
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Well good for you, but there are others who most certainly use it as a bargaining chip, as an enticement, as a billboard to manipulation, as a pacification of self, as a stirring of lust, and so on.
If all men were like sheep, then that behavior may not cause any harm;
but out here in this jungle, there are lions; predators;
and what is the real sense in dangling raw meat in front of a lion?
And predators will strike no matter what the woman is wearing.
And that is the nature of this jungle. Just have to be as wise and as careful as one could reasonably be?
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06-03-2015, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octopusonpaper
Dressing up or showing off our best features when on a date is manipulation. We use it daily without giving it much thought. What is the definition of the word? To act skilfully to get ones way? We want, we get. Manipulation per se is not a negative word. What determines if it is negative or positive is the motive.
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It's just following social conventions. We do this because....it's done. It's just conversation but on a level different from words.
When I meet a new client I dress how I think is appropriate - but not to be manipulative, rather to establish a commonality between us so that the manipulation can proceed verbally. In this case we call it negotiation. The client will be counter-manipulating!
Presentation is as much part of communication as words. Some people communicate well. Others don't.
(A set of skills, I might add, sadly disappearing as people run their lives increasingly by typing onto screens.)
♀
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06-03-2015, 03:31 PM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Rex, Georgia
Posts: 3,644
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Even patterns of communication can be predictable , which can often cause a man to respect a woman more. If he hears intelligence, maturity and good common sense coming out of the woman, the more of that he has in him, then the more he will respect her. He knows what he is dealing with; and some men actually don't want that in a woman, because its harder to manipulate. Some men desire those things in women, because they know the true value of it and are not intimidated by it. But these things are predictable, we see them over and over again.
And we can learn from them.
You get two people together who have learned a great deal from this, and a good circle of communication should be established, and a lot of good could come from it.
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06-03-2015, 03:35 PM
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Pathfinder
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 96
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Staying in a relationship which is manipulative is not good for heart or soul and not even for your health. and staying in realtionship after you realise the other person is manipulating you is even worse. It drains you in all possible ways.... run is what I would say .. but if you are that strong to be a part of that game and play back you could try for sometime....
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